Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words

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  • Spartan
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1037

    #61
    Osiris

    You are right my friend, the Ancient Greeks were rather egocentric.
    However there are some exceptions from what I have read.
    For instance, Ancient Greek writings have a plethora of information on the Persians and Phoenicians. This is probably due to being in constant contact with them, Phooenicians for trade, Persians for war.

    These are just two examples I know, but its worth mentioning I believe.
    They werent always looking in the mirror is my point, lol
    Damn Narcicists...

    Comment

    • TerraNova
      Banned
      • Nov 2008
      • 473

      #62
      Originally posted by Spartan View Post
      Osiris

      You are right my friend, the Ancient Greeks were rather egocentric.
      However there are some exceptions from what I have read.
      For instance, Ancient Greek writings have a plethora of information on the Persians and Phoenicians. This is probably due to being in constant contact with them, Phooenicians for trade, Persians for war.

      These are just two examples I know, but its worth mentioning I believe.
      They werent always looking in the mirror is my point, lol
      Damn Narcicists...
      Spartan...we shouldn't wait everything from the Greeks.After all almost all we know about other pre-Roman people come from the Greek sources.
      Illyrians,Thracians and hundreds of other people didn't leave any literature or written history about themselves.

      Comment

      • osiris
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1969

        #63
        spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.

        terra you dont get it do you , its true we know a lot about the ancient world from greek writings, but the point is we know so little, and we know it from a greek perspective, hardly an objective view. who is darius terranova and why is he called darius. why are the phoenicians so called when they had their own name. why was there no illyrian or thracian glossary , do you understand what i mean.

        the modern european view of ancient greece is through rose coloured glasses and not a true representation of the greek world its a fantasy world. when one looks at the art of greece one is in awe but past that and they are not much better than any one the other ancients from whom they took so much knowledge. terranova get a grip on reality please and stop living that fantasy too.
        Last edited by osiris; 02-01-2009, 07:55 AM.

        Comment

        • TerraNova
          Banned
          • Nov 2008
          • 473

          #64
          Originally posted by osiris View Post
          spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.

          terra you dont get it do you , its true l we know a lot of the ancinet from greek writings, but the point is we know so little, and we know it form a greek perspective, hardly an objective view. who is darius terranova and why is he called darius. wahy are the phoenicians so called when they had their own name so we can have abetter understanding of them. why was there no illyrian or thracian glossary , do you understand what i mean. the view we have of ancinet greece is through rose coloured glasses and not a true representation of the greek world its a fantasy world.

          when one looks at the art of greece one is in awe but past that and they are not much better than any one the other ancients from whom they took so much knowledge. get a grip on reality please and stop living that fantasy too.

          oK..ok ...the fact remains one.
          Ancient Greeks left us a treasure-thousands of works about everything.
          Science,mathematics,philosophy,theater,literature, history...

          It's very probable they used pre-existing knowledge,but they didn't just imitate or copy.
          They adjusted,expanded ,transformed this knowledge and created new.
          I believe their major accomplishment was that they escaped the magical-religious way of thinking,and achieved a thinking human-centered and based on logic.
          This is the base of western civilization ,and this is the crucial difference from the great Middle Eastern civilizations.

          Comment

          • osiris
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1969

            #65
            yeah yeah yeah viva hellas, can you name one technological development that is ancinet greek terranova, or is repeating the rose coloured romanticsm of wesern europes view of the greeks enough for you.

            alphabet gods technologies all frome others, so for the record whats the unique greek contribution, logic theatre, want to see real contributions to human knowledge look at india and china.

            Comment

            • Spartan
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1037

              #66
              Originally posted by osiris View Post
              spartan i am surprised at how sensitive some modern greeks are about the ancients, any criticsm is considered sacreligious, its not a very healthy state of mind, thanks for calling me freind i hope you mean it.
              It saddens me that you question what I say Osiris
              Of course I mean it
              Spartans never say what they dont mean

              Comment

              • osiris
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1969

                #67
                sorry spartan i am kind of inecure these day i cut my very short a number one cut aand its rocked my self confidence. lol

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #68
                  The capital city of Bulgaria, Sofia, has only been known by that (Greek) name since the 14th century, previous to that, it had retained an ancient name of local etymology and significance. Originally, it was recorded as Serdica/Serdika (or Sardica), after the Thracian tribe that inhabited the region who were called Serdi.

                  In the Middle Ages the name Triaditsa came to be known however this was a translation of the local name for those writing in Greek. The name the city was known as by the Slavic tribes inhabiting it among the local Thracians was Sredec/Sredets (or Sreditsa), which can mean either the 'centre' срeдe (Srede in Macedonian) or the 'heart' - срцє (Srtse in Macedonian), срьдьцє (Sr'd'tse in Old Slavonic).

                  The actual geographic location of modern Sofia is virtually in the centre of the Balkan region having almost equal distance to the Adriatic and Black Sea on the one hand, and the Dabube and Aegean on the other.


                  The difference between Serdica and Sreditsa are very minimal and indicate a crossing of common dialects between Thracian and the Slavic language from the Danube areas rather than two completely unrelated tongues. In this case, an ancient Thracian placename was preserved in its related Slavic variant for centuries after the disruptions caused by tribes beyond the Danube against East Rome.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                    The capital city of Bulgaria, Sofia, has only been known by that (Greek) name since the 14th century, previous to that, it had retained an ancient name of local etymology and significance. Originally, it was recorded as Serdica/Serdika (or Sardica), after the Thracian tribe that inhabited the region who were called Serdi.

                    In the Middle Ages the name Triaditsa came to be known however this was a translation of the local name for those writing in Greek. The name the city was known as by the Slavic tribes inhabiting it among the local Thracians was Sredec/Sredets (or Sreditsa), which can mean either the 'centre' срeдe (Srede in Macedonian) or the 'heart' - срцє (Srtse in Macedonian), срьдьцє (Sr'd'tse in Old Slavonic).

                    The actual geographic location of modern Sofia is virtually in the centre of the Balkan region having almost equal distance to the Adriatic and Black Sea on the one hand, and the Dabube and Aegean on the other.


                    The difference between Serdica and Sreditsa are very minimal and indicate a crossing of common dialects between Thracian and the Slavic language from the Danube areas rather than two completely unrelated tongues. In this case, an ancient Thracian placename was preserved in its related Slavic variant for centuries after the disruptions caused by tribes beyond the Danube against East Rome.
                    This is fascinating stuff. Good work SoM.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #70
                      Macedonian Kinship terms, as explained in an MPO article:



                      Have you ever wondered what the difference between a vuyna and a strina is? Or a cheecho and a tetko? Have you found it difficult to distinguish between a zolva and an etarva? You are not alone! All children and grandchildren of Macedonian immigrants to the New World have been confused about our kinship system, or the way we address our relatives and our in-laws.

                      It is quite a bit different than the Anglo-American system and in many respects, considerably more precise. There was considerable interest in this topic at the language seminar conducted by Janice Chachoff and myself at the MPO Convention in Indianapolis. Many of the participants, both young and old, asked me to record this portion of the seminar in the pages of the MACEDONIAN TRIBUNE. I am happy to oblige.

                      Our language is, of course, written in the Cyrillic alphabet, but because so few of the younger generation know it, I am transliterating the terms using a modified English system. Therefore, when you are reading, please remember that: "i" is always pronounced as "ee", as in feet, or keel "a" is used for the Cyrillic letter b. This vowel is similar to the final vowel in sofa or toga. An "e" at the end of a word is always pronounced as the "e" in bet or set. A "u" is always pronounced as the "oo " in cool or pool.

                      Maika is the word for "mother". When addressing your mother, you would use the forms maiko or mamo. Mashchea or para-maika means stepmother.

                      Tatko is the word for father. When addressing your father, you could say tatko or tate. Other dialects say tato. Para-tatko means stepfather. Brat is brother. Sestra is sister. Dedo is grandfather. Your greatgrandfather is your dedo star. Baba is grandmother. Your greatgrandmother is your baba stara. Sin is son. Often, the word dete, meaning boy is used instead. Kerka or shcherka is daughter. Often the word chupa, meaning girl is used instead. Both male and female children were often addressed as chedo (or chendo in the Kostur Region). Literally, this means offspring or child.

                      Vnuk means grandson, and vnuka means granddaughter. These two words also mean nephew and niece. This sometimes causes confusion, as it is one of the few cases where our kinship system is not as accurate as the English one.

                      Striko or chicho is your father’s brother. In the eastern Lerin Region (Banitsa, Ekshi Su, Zeleniche, the term baiche is used instead.

                      Strina is your striko’s (father’s brother’s) wife. Vuyko or vuyche is your mother’s brother. His wife is your vuyna. Teta is your father’s sister or your mother’s sister. Her husband is your tetko or tetin.

                      Brached or bratuched is a male cousin, while bratcheda or bratucheda (brachenda or bratuchenda) in the Kostur dialect) is a female cousin. Snaa is daughter-in-law. When talking to her you use the word nevesto (or in some dialects ne’esto, which also means bride. Zet is your son-in-law. The word also means bridegroom.

                      If you are a married woman, your mother-in-law is your svekarva and your father-in-law is your svekor. Your husband is referred to as your momche if he is young or your mazh or mazh or mozh, if he is older, depending on the dialect.

                      Your husband’s brother is your dever. Your dever’s wife is your etarva (yatarva in Buf, Lerinsko and to the north of that village.) In the Kostur Region, you address your brother-in-law’s wife as zonye. Your husband’s sister is your zolva (or zalva in the eastern Lerin Region). In the Kostur Region, you address her as motro. If you are a married man, your wife’s mother is your teshcha and your wife’s father is test. You would address them as baba and dedo, respectively.

                      Your wife’s brother is your shura, and his wife is your shurna. Your wife’s sister is your sveska, and her husband is your badjanak. The families of your daughterin- law or son-in-law are your svatovi or svatovshchini. The father of the daughter-in-law or son-in-law is your svat, while the mother is your svatya (or svakya or svaikya outside of the Kostur Region). Everyone belonged not only to a family or familya, but also to a clan or soy or rod, a group of families with the same last name, or a number of different last names, but who all had one common ancestor. Your relatives by blood are called rodnini. The godfather and godmother played an important role in the life of each person. They chose your name, they baptized you and marriage could not take place without their active participation. It was they who moved the crowns from the head of the groom to that of the bride and vice-versa during the Orthodox wedding ceremony. Though not a blood relation, they were considered to be relatives of the highest order. In the Kostur Region, the godfather is called the kum, while the godmother is the kuma. In other areas they were called the nunko and the nunka. In the village of Buf, they were called numko and numka.

                      The terms defined are native to the whole region of southwestern Macedonia. There are minor differences in the various dialects, which I have tried to indicate. I would appreciate hearing from any reader who can indicate any new details from the various dialects. Southwestern Macedonia is very mountainous and these geographical barriers impeded communications between the different areas. This is the reason for the minor differences which developed. Our kinship system has served our people for centuries, but is starting to disappear both in Greek ruled Aegean Macedonia as well as North America and Australia as the second and third generations no longer speak the ancestral language.

                      It is worth preserving, because it is indispensable for all who are doing family history or genealogy. It is also a unique part of our heritage.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #71
                        Interesting is the word for children or off-spring, it has been suggested that Chedo is related to the Thracian word Kenthas which means the same thing. When one considers the dialects of Kostur in Macedonia and the equivalent variant of Chendo, it provides even more resemblance.

                        This feature is often present in the dialects of Kostur, so instead of Zabi it is Zambi, instead of Bracheda it is Brachenda, etc.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #72
                          Of all the members of the Slavic linguistic group, the Macedonian language is the only one that has a unique word for a 'mouse'. While in Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Croatian, etc it is Mish or Mush (or some variant with that root), in the Macedonian language it is Глушец, (Glušec, Glushets). In Thracian the word is Argilos.


                          A discussion in relation to the same topic,

                          Is the word mouse in your language feminine or masculine? I'd like to also hear from speakers of Sorbian if they are on this forum.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #73
                            What is the origin of the word 'Kukla' meaning 'Doll'? Most sources on the net seem to indicate Turkish, and apart from Macedonians, Albanians and Greeks using the same word, Google Translate shows the same word in Russian.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Of all the members of the Slavic linguistic group, the Macedonian language is the only one that has a unique word for a 'mouse'. While in Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Croatian, etc it is Mish or Mush (or some variant with that root), in the Macedonian language it is Глушец, (Glušec, Glushets). In Thracian the word is Argilos.


                              A discussion in relation to the same topic,

                              http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1033641
                              Make it 2 unique words for "mouse".
                              20km South of you we say "glufets".

                              I find it interesting that "f" can replace "sh" or vice versa.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • makedonin
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 1668

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                Make it 2 unique words for "mouse".
                                20km South of you we say "glufets".

                                I find it interesting that "f" can replace "sh" or vice versa.

                                The original word is Glufets. It comes from Gluf, or Gluv, which means to be deaf, even though they can hear.

                                In German, pigins are called Taube and comes from Taub > deaf.

                                Why is it so, can't really tell.
                                To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

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