Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

[TrueMacedonian]

An active military programme and a policy of patronage towards both major and minor religious centres abroad were both methods of asserting parity of status with richer rivals in other kingdoms but both laid a heavy burden on Philip V's treasury. His defeat by the Romans in the Second Macedonian War (200-197) saddled him with an indemnity of 1000 talents and shortly afterwards he embarked on a policy designed to expand his revenues.

He not only increased the revenues of the kingdom by taxes on agricultural produce and by import and export duties; he also restarted the working of old mines that had been abandoned and opened new workings in many places. Moreover, in order to restore the population to its ancient level after the losses sustained in the disaster of war, he not only sought to ensure an increase in the native stock by insisting that everyone must beget children and rear them, but he had also introduced a large number of Thracians into Macedonia. The considerable period of respite from warfare had enabled him to devote all his attention to increasing his kingdom's resources (Livy, xxxix, 24, 2-4).

The Hellenistic World F. W. Walbank, Harvard, 1981
Chapter 5 Macedonia and Greece page 88

[momce]

the problem in all these debates is we cant really understand the processes around the socalled "ethnographic" bridge and its roles in historical evolution in the Balkan region

[momce]

and what these clown dont seem to understand is that greece was never a contiguous geographic or political area...was just settlements(which had all kinds of people in them) and what later developed as greek was a socio-linguistic construct

[TrueMacedonian]

Constantine, late in his reign, allowed 300,000 Sarmatians to settle in Pannonia, Thrace, Macedonia, and even in Italy. These new settlers furnished recruits for the Roman army who would join Goths, Scythians, and Germans who not long before had been at war with Rome.

Legions of Rome: The Definitive History of Every Imperial Roman Legion, page 202, By Stephen Dando-Collin.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by TrueMacedonian

Constantine, late in his reign, allowed 300,000 Sarmatians to settle in Pannonia, Thrace, Macedonia, and even in Italy. These new settlers furnished recruits for the Roman army who would join Goths, Scythians, and Germans who not long before had been at war with Rome.

Legions of Rome: The Definitive History of Every Imperial Roman Legion, page 202, By Stephen Dando-Collin.

Nice find TM.

1) Here is a quote from "Pannonia and Upper Moesia: A History of the Middle Danube", by András Mócsy (page 278):

"The testimony of a further source allows us to infer that in 332 the Sarmatians were allies of Rome, evidently as a result of the treaty renewed in 322. Since we are further informed that in 332 a huge mass of Sarmatians was settled in the Balkans and in Italy, we must interpret these events in the light of the old alternative: armed aid or receptio, the root cause being increasing pressure exerted on the Sarmatians by the Goths and other Germanic tribes."

http://books.google.ca/books?id=6L49...ed=0CDkQ6AEwAA

2) Roots of Balkanization: Eastern Europe C. E. 500-1500, by By Ion Grumeza - Page 58:

"Constantine the Great resettled many Sarmatians in Macedonia and Thracia, but not in Mysia/Moesia."

http://books.google.ca/books?id=DTxu...ed=0CDwQ6AEwAQ

3) HISTORY OF THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE - Edward Gibbon, Esq.

"Some of the fugitive Sarmatians solicited a less ignominious dependence, under the hostile standard of the Goths. A more numerous band retired beyond the Carpathian Mountains, among the Quadi, their German allies, and were easily admitted to share a superfluous waste of uncultivated land. But the far greater part of the distressed nation turned their eyes towards the fruitful provinces of Rome. Imploring the protection and forgiveness of the emperor, they solemnly promised, as subjects in peace, and as soldiers in war, the most inviolable fidelity to the empire which should graciously receive them into its bosom. According to the maxims adopted by Probus and his successors, the offers of this barbarian colony were eagerly accepted; and a competent portion of lands in the provinces of Pannonia, Thrace, Macedonia, and Italy, were immediately assigned for the habitation and subsistence of three hundred thousand Sarmatians."

ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/gut...link182HCH0002


I have no idea where to add this video, so I will post it here. It's a Yale lecture on Nationalism, by John Merriman (this course was recorded in Fall 2008). The Macedonian example is being discussed in the first few minutes, it starts around the 2:20 minute mark. Enjoy.

13. Nationalism - YouTube

[TrueMacedonian]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Achapter%3D10

Philip V Desperate Measures

In this period a certain dreadful foreshadowing of misfortune fell upon king Philip and the whole of Macedonia, of a kind well worthy of close attention and record. As though Fortune had resolved to exact from him at once the penalties for all the impieties and crimes which he had committed in the whole course of his life, she now visited him with furies, those deities of retribution, those powers that had listened to the prayers of the victims of his cruelties, who, haunting him day and night, so plagued him to the last day of his life, that all the world was forced to acknowledge the truth of the proverb, that "Justice has an eye" which mere men should never despise. The first idea suggested to him by this evil power was that, as he was about to go to war with Rome, he had better remove from the most important cities, and those along the sea-coast, the leading citizens, with their wives and children, and place them in Emathia, formerly called Paeonia, and fill up the cities with Thracians and other barbarians, as likely to be more securely loyal to him in the coming hour of danger.

Exactly what did Paeonia mean to Polybius?

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Carlin

Nice find TM.

1) Here is a quote from "Pannonia and Upper Moesia: A History of the Middle Danube", by András Mócsy (page 278):

"The testimony of a further source allows us to infer that in 332 the Sarmatians were allies of Rome, evidently as a result of the treaty renewed in 322. Since we are further informed that in 332 a huge mass of Sarmatians was settled in the Balkans and in Italy, we must interpret these events in the light of the old alternative: armed aid or receptio, the root cause being increasing pressure exerted on the Sarmatians by the Goths and other Germanic tribes."

http://books.google.ca/books?id=6L49...ed=0CDkQ6AEwAA

2) Roots of Balkanization: Eastern Europe C. E. 500-1500, by By Ion Grumeza - Page 58:

"Constantine the Great resettled many Sarmatians in Macedonia and Thracia, but not in Mysia/Moesia."

http://books.google.ca/books?id=DTxu...ed=0CDwQ6AEwAQ

3) HISTORY OF THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE - Edward Gibbon, Esq.

"Some of the fugitive Sarmatians solicited a less ignominious dependence, under the hostile standard of the Goths. A more numerous band retired beyond the Carpathian Mountains, among the Quadi, their German allies, and were easily admitted to share a superfluous waste of uncultivated land. But the far greater part of the distressed nation turned their eyes towards the fruitful provinces of Rome. Imploring the protection and forgiveness of the emperor, they solemnly promised, as subjects in peace, and as soldiers in war, the most inviolable fidelity to the empire which should graciously receive them into its bosom. According to the maxims adopted by Probus and his successors, the offers of this barbarian colony were eagerly accepted; and a competent portion of lands in the provinces of Pannonia, Thrace, Macedonia, and Italy, were immediately assigned for the habitation and subsistence of three hundred thousand Sarmatians."

ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/gut...link182HCH0002


I have no idea where to add this video, so I will post it here. It's a Yale lecture on Nationalism, by John Merriman (this course was recorded in Fall 2008). The Macedonian example is being discussed in the first few minutes, it starts around the 2:20 minute mark. Enjoy.

13. Nationalism - YouTube

That's an interesting video Carlin.

[George S.]

So TM what happened to the macedonian population over the hundreds if not thousands of years??Where did they go??Did they leave macedonia?? Did trhey die off??etc What is your opinion based on what you have read.??

[momce]

good question...i think only makes sense to include macedonia as part of regional federation illyria, macedonia, thrace..probably the ancient Macedonians were a mixed tribe as well with different dialects under one tribal council...so maybe the purity issue is not even relevant

[George S.]

Regarding the past there were a number of different tribes that were classed as macedonian i think they numbered the sixteen rays of the sun,sixteen tribes.But due to many factors our population has dwindled,worldwide i'm told there are about 5 million macedonians,but there are nearly 400 million who use our cyrillic script.At various times we wre attacked by through wars,famine,black death etc.