Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

[Po-drum]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Are there other examples of Slavic loans into Albanian which show the vowel change e > i (Plesh > Plis)?

I can't find many examples with similar development, except maybe
Debar - Dibra.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Both Gheg and Tosk dialects share the sound change l > r (similar to a western Indo-Iranian development, where laghu becomes raghu, zald become zar, etc), thus the Latin exonym 'Albania' which became prominent during the Norman invasion of the Balkans (via the eastern Adriatic coast) in the 11th century, became Arbania. This rhotic sound change is also evident in the Neapolitan dialect of Italy, spoken in many of the Italian regions conquered by the Normans prior to their invasion of the Balkans.

Something further to the above which is quite interesting. This is a sign written in the so-called 'Tsakonian' dialect of Greek. Notice that the word 'glossa' is instead written as 'groussa', which has the same rhotic sound change as Albanian. The same may also apply to the Albanian word for 'white', which is Barde < Balto (Blato after metathesis in Slavic languages).

[Po-drum]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

The same may also apply to the Albanian word for 'white', which is Barde < Balto (Blato after metathesis in Slavic languages).

How do you mean "blato" is connected with "white"??
Maybe "bledo"? blato>bledo

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Po-drum

How do you mean "blato" is connected with "white"?? Maybe "bledo"? blato>bledo

The Macedonian word blato (< balto) is said to have originally derived from PIE *bʰel, which means 'light' or 'bright'. Of course its meaning today (which is basically 'mud') is different due to a semantic shift which came about when aquatic elements began to be associated with colours that are found in swamps, seas, etc. Albanian also has 'balte' for 'mud', but this is a borrowing from Proto Slavic (pre metathesis) after the semantic shift took place. Here is a comparison with other IE languages:

- *bʰel (Proto Indo-European)
- balta (Illyrian)
- balto/bolto (Proto Slavic)
- baltas (Lithuanian)
- balts (Latvian)
- barde (Albanian)
- bhárga (Sanskrit)

The reason why I have made reference to the rhotic similarity (l > r) between Albanian and Indo-Iranian (which can be seen again with the Sanskrit example above) is because it is not improbable that the latter (via Iranian languages spoken by certain Scythian populations) influenced the former during some earlier stage of development. Furthermore, looking at the g in Sanskrit bhárga, it could have subsequently developed into a d in Albanian, hence barde. Although this is not a specific rule, it is common in Albanian for both voiced/aspirated and palatal/plain velars. See below examples:

*dʰéǵʰōm (earth) became dhè in Albanian.
*gʰérsdʰo (barley) became drithë in Albanian.
*ǵómbʰo (tooth) became dhëmb in Albanian.
*glag (milk) became dhallë in Albanian.

[Po-drum]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Something further to the above which is quite interesting. This is a sign written in the so-called 'Tsakonian' dialect of Greek. Notice that the word 'glossa' is instead written as 'groussa', which has the same rhotic sound change as Albanian. The same may also apply to the Albanian word for 'white', which is Barde < Balto (Blato after metathesis in Slavic languages).

Is this rhotic sound change also characteristic for church-slavonic when compared with other languages, or this example is just exception..



http://www.scribd.com/doc/37122719/%...bulgarian-dial

[Nexus]

Personally i think that albanians have the right to search for their origins, like every nation in this world. They search for their "illyrian" origins, i have no problem with this. But look now, what's happen; they label now everything illyrian as albanian, that's why you can see " Oh no Alexander the Great was albanian, he speaks pure albanian ...". They must understand that the ancient illyrians, if they survived, have not become EXCLUSIVELY albanians, there are others nation who can also pretend an illyrian origin : the bosnians, the croats, the montenegrins, and the ... serbs ! "But it is impossible ! They are slavs !" ... They adopted a new mentality very similar to our friends the Greeks, they pretend to have pure genes, pure blood, pure heritage. Maybe i will say something that can shock, but i think if the Ottomans had not conquered the Balkans, the albanians peoples will not exist today. I know it's a extreme statement, but i think it has some truth ... I am not anti-albanian, and i am interested by their culture, history, they are my "neighbors", and if i am wrong, correct me and i will apologize . But i can't ignore the actual events, and the fact that extremists albanians claim macedonians territories, and we can't hide the fact that their ideas are very popular amongst the majority of the albanian people ...

[Nexus]

I do not believe so much at the "bosnisized" or slavisized muslims albanians, or slavisized albanians who became the today's montenegrins. During the Ottoman time, i think that albanization was more common than slavicisation. The turkish empire has stopped the process of slavicisation and hellenization in the region. It was like a benediction for the albanian people because they has certainly faced extinction at the time. With the Ottoman empire, and their conversion to Islam, they have gained power and strengh. It explains also the expansion of the albanians people, and the beginning of an albanization. If theres are solid facts about a "slavisization" of albanians, then show me. (I am little bit disturbed now, i am 25 percent montenegrin and the idea that i can have albanian origins ... does not please me very much ).

[George S.]

i beleive in the theory that the albanians in albania have no connection with the illyrians in albania & that they originally came from asia minor where there was an albania there.The albanians emigrated from there in about 7century ad.Long time ago the illyrians seemed to cease to exist.Some think that the serbs & croats are the illyrian people.The albanians have got nothing to be proud of they used to be called the most backward people in europe because they shut themselves off europe for centuries.Their language reminds me of italian,they borrowed a lot of words from them.So they got nothing to be proud about there is nothing pure about them.Today's albanian have more slavic then you could poke a stick at.

[Chiche]

"Today's albanian have more slavic then you could poke a stick at."
Who are the 'Slavs', the term is used by many, they are as much a myth as the Albanians and Greeks.

[George S.]

Slav is a nother label they put on people.Supposedly slavs were from the caspian area towards russia.Different kinds of slavs were around.Originally all people came from mesopatamia.Some were from the sumerians.The point is the greeks,albanians are all slavs & just as much slav influence in macedonia.But the macedonians still exist & they are still macedonian.