Greece, History, Truth

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by George S.

yeah the albanians got in troyuble in the navy where they spoke albanian and were told only to speak greek.In any of the wars macedonians etc were used like cannon fodder in the frontline.They were told they are fighting for freedom what a lie.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but wearing italian design clothes doesn't make you italian.
As for the army, well it's been a long time since my service, but I think that the language you are suppossed to speak is greek. Along with many other things.
I mean that when I was doing my service, even political newspaper were not allowed. Sport newspapers were allowed. I don't know what's changed since then.

[George S.]

The albanians were service men in the greek navy they happen to speak albanian.The authorities weren'too happy with that.

[Philosopher]

Originally Posted by spitfire

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but wearing italian design clothes doesn't make you italian.
As for the army, well it's been a long time since my service, but I think that the language you are suppossed to speak is greek. Along with many other things.
I mean that when I was doing my service, even political newspaper were not allowed. Sport newspapers were allowed. I don't know what's changed since then.

You mean to tell me you are not a teenager? You are not on drugs? You are not playing "Call of Duty"? No football with your mates?

How can this be?

[SoutherNeighbour]

Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce

Is there a significant number that identify as Albanians? Based on your experiences.

Unfortunately most of them have been assimilated by the Greek propaganda.I think only a handful of them are even aware that they have a direct link with Albania.Most of them even find it offensive to be linked to their Albanian brothers.

The vast majority of Arvanites in Greece self-identify as Greeks.Besides Arvanitika (their mother tongue) is dying very quickly in Greece.Out of the 1 million or so Arvanites in today's Greece I would say that less than a quarter can understand it but only a very small % can actually speak it at a satisfactory level.Mostly old people speak it I guess.The current projection is that by 2030 Arvanitika will be extinct in Greece.

On the other hand there are some sporadic reports of just a handful of Arvanites who self-identify as Albanians in Greece.Unfortunately this is becoming very rare to find.

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by Philosopher

You mean to tell me you are not a teenager? You are not on drugs? You are not playing "Call of Duty"? No football with your mates?

How can this be?

Well I feel young.

[Philosopher]

Originally Posted by SoutherNeighbour

Unfortunately most of them have been assimilated by the Greek propaganda.I think only a handful of them are even aware that they have a direct link with Albania.Most of them even find it offensive to be linked to their Albanian brothers.

The vast majority of Arvanites in Greece self-identify as Greeks.Besides Arvanitika (their mother tongue) is dying very quickly in Greece.Out of the 1 million or so Arvanites in today's Greece I would say that less than a quarter can understand it but only a very small % can actually speak it at a satisfactory level.Mostly old people speak it I guess.The current projection is that by 2030 Arvanitika will be extinct in Greece.

On the other hand there are some sporadic reports of just a handful of Arvanites who self-identify as Albanians in Greece.Unfortunately this is becoming very rare to find.

Important observations. There are two things I would like to ask you. First, is it obvious, self-evident if you will, that the Arvanite population in Greece, though essentially Greek, is Albanian? Is there something in their physical appearance, dress, manners, customs, anything, that would allow an ethnic Greek to distinguish an ethnic Albanian?

Second, do ethnic Greeks intermix with the Arvanite population? Does the Arvanite population only intermix with itself? Would an ethnic Greek, if he or she were to ascertain the ethnic status of a Greek Albanian, would he or she not marry that person?

[SoutherNeighbour]

I think the assimilation of Arvanites is so successful in Greek society that the above questions do not apply really.

I mean that the Arvanites have blended in so good in the Greek society that they are indistinguishable from the rest.The rest of the Greeks additionally have accepted them like their own.

In fact in today's Greece people do not perceive Arvanites different than the rest of the Greeks.Most of the Greeks do not acknowledge any relationship between Arvanites and Albanians and consider them equally Greeks.

In fact today if you speak about someone who is Arvanitis in Greece most people will immediately associate them with ''stubbornness'' (there is a relevant Greek proverb on them) and not with any kind of a minority .They wont even blink an eye in the assumption that they might be related to Albanians.They know that Arvanites themselves really dislike being associated with Albania.

[Bill77]

Recently I've came to some realisation. The world we live in is a lie.

On the topic of this thread and more to the recent posts....I say this.

Arvanites thinking they are Greeks, is a lie. Greeks thinking they are Greeks is a lie. Also us Macedonians thinking we are Macedonians is a lie. Hatred we all have for each other stems from lies. Why must we all be segregated belong to a particular race, isn't just being part of a human race enough? What has gone so wrong with the human race?

What's wrong with our world? Well the world we live in has a mental illness. This illness is given to us not long after the day we are born and gets worse as we grow. Our parents, religious leaders, community leaders, Governments, Schools all play part in establishing this mental illness in us, but they are not the root of the cause, nor are they entirely to blame. How can they be when they are also part of this world and infected by this mental illness.

So who is to blame? I am.......until people understand and can put their hand up and admit "I am to blame" humanity will keep suffering and only get worse.

"Humanity is going to require a substantially
New way of thinking if it is to survive."

Albert Einstein



"The world is his,
Who can see through its pretension.....
See it to be a lie, and you have already dealt it it's mortal blow."

Ralph Waldorf Emerson.

[SoutherNeighbour]

Exactly Bill.This stupid segregation between people is just beyond me...I do not recognise any borders,nationalities etc that divide the human experience.I do not recognise any religion or made up concept that segregates us.

We are all different and we are all unique...I will never ever stop dreaming about a universally united humanity that is strengthen and not weakened by its diversity.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by SoutherNeighbour

Exactly Bill.This stupid segregation between people is just beyond me...I do not recognise any borders,nationalities etc that divide the human experience.I do not recognise any religion or made up concept that segregates us.

We are all different and we are all unique...I will never ever stop dreaming about a universally united humanity that is strengthen and not weakened by its diversity.

Good on you mate.
Seriously.
I enjoy travelling because it forces me to challenge my beliefs. I am constantly amazed with the people I meet in the places I go. It humbles me and we all need that.

My most recent humbling experience was in Thailand last month where we constantly get harassed by tailors who want to sell us some shirts, suits etc. They are all Indian looking typically. My sons were with me and I told them I would speak Macedonian to the tailors, and the first one who could respond to me in Macedonian would get my custom. My sons thought is was a great laugh. Well, they know all kinds of languages, but Macedonian escaped their repertoire. So I had no tailor. It was not very nice behaviour on my part.

I wanted some shirts for myself and my sons, so I selected a tailor and went into his rooms. We chatted and I asked his life story. He was a Pakistani who happened to be Christian. This is not so good in a Talibanising nation such as Pakistan. He was highly educated and spoke a number of languages and had lived in Thailand for 10 years. He had tried to immigrate into Australia so many times to no avail.

He literally grabbed my sons and told them how lucky they were and they should seize upon all the opportunities they can find. Meanwhile his kids are being educated in Thailand and being ostracised for being different.

We all took something from our chat and he overcharged me by about $20 but I let it slide. Which is something I normally never let happen lol

Point being, everyone has a story to tell.

Other point being, so many hateful Greeks that can't see the human in front of the Macedonian ..... should be hung, drawn and quartered.