Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Epirot

and if a map or document of westerns makes known the existence of Macedonians as a distinct ethnicity should we reject it? Don't play with double standards!

Hang on a second, the purpose of this thread was to demonstrate the supposed Illyrian 'origin' of Albanians, not to demonstrate that the Albanians existed as a nation during the 19th century.

I must say, Epirot, this was an excellent opportunity for you to put forth and corroborate your argument concerning the Illyro-Albanian connection. I am left far from convinced.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by VMRO

The first historical signs of the Arnauts/Albanians in the Balkans appeared during the 1700's.

Here is a quote from 1906 about the Albanians in Macedonia:

"The original native country of the Gegs is not Macedonia, but the vilayet Kavkaz..! From the ancient times up to now, those people do not know what a common organization and common idea is and regarding the cultural level they are at the same degree as they were in the time before Christ, and perhaps even on a lower level..! The Gegs - Arnauts are an outcome of the savage Kurds. - Dr Niko Zupanic, Macedonia (Etniogafic sketch), Ljubljana, 1904, p.62).


I have many more quotes from various sources on The Albanians, primarily the Gegs, however it deserves a topic on it's own as the quotes primarily mention the barbaric acts of the Gegs.

VMRO, create the topic, it is an interesting subjects that requires greater clarity.

[Epirot]

I find you Macedonians a very interesting people. On the one hand, you try to diminish the presence of various (and sometimes large) ethnic groups with Asiatic background in Macedonia during Middle Age, but on other hand you take seriously the presence of some tiny Oriental settlers in Albania. What is this if not a double standard?

[Epirot]

They all speak Arnaud, which is like no other tongue. In origin, the Arnaudi were one of the Arab tribes of Quraysh in Mecca. That is why there are some Arabic words still in use among them. When these Arnaud tribesmen emerged from the mountains of Skadar and Vlora, they mingled with the Italians and Franks, and so, during the Caliphate of Omar, produced a language between Arabic and Frankish.

Let me inform you that Albanian has nothing Frankish or Arabic in its vocabulary!

The aforementioned Albanians have a language which is distinct from that of the Latins, Greeks and Slavs such that in no way can they communicate with other peoples. This is enough on Albania.

1308 Anonymous: Description of Eastern Europe

All the Albanians visit the grave, claiming him as their ancestor.

In no way! No Albanian has ever consider him as his ancestor. I guess you missed what Celeby said. If some fanatic Islamic believers consider him as their ancestor this does not mean that they're necessary descended from him. It's like a Christian or Islamic believer consider himself as lineal descendant of Adam or Eva...lol

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Epirot

I find you Macedonians a very interesting people. On the one hand, you try to diminish the presence of various (and sometimes large) ethnic groups with Asiatic background in Macedonia during Middle Age, but on other hand you take seriously the presence of some tiny Oriental settlers in Albania. What is this if not a double standard?

This coming from someone who claims to have an Illyrian heritage yet is unable to produce a single piece of evidence to support his argument? Address your concerns to me, Epirot, the Asiatic presence of who exactly has been diminished from the Middle Ages? The Bulgars? You've been itching to say that, haven't you? Why don't you go ahead and explain the significance of this Asiatic presence in the first place before we move on to 'diminishing' it, or better yet, demolishing the assertion altogether.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Epirot

Let me inform you that Albanian has nothing Frankish or Arabic in its vocabulary!

Nothing at all, are you sure about that? Do you know what Celebi means by 'Frankish'? I think the answer is 'no' on both counts.

In no way! No Albanian has ever consider him as his ancestor. I guess you missed what Celeby said.

Celebi stayed among Albanians, it was the Albanians themselves who told him that story. If you want to concern yourself with Celebi's own opinion then have a think about why he said your people actually do look like Arabs. Or have you missed that?

[Onur]

Originally Posted by Epirot

Let me inform you that Albanian has nothing Frankish or Arabic in its vocabulary!

Check my post here;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=3389


There is a computer program which analyzes the 138 different typological characters and a vocabulary of languages. It finds the similarities of the different languages and draws a table according to the results.

The result diagram shows Albanian language between Romanian and modern Greek in terms of grammar features but as for vocabulary, it puts Albanian between Persian(which has a lot of common words with Arabic today) and eastern Armenian/modern Greek;



While Albanian is not inside the same bubble with Persian but it`s close to it in term of vocabulary. So this kinda confirms Evliya Celebi`s findings at 17th century;

When these Arnaud tribesmen emerged from the mountains of Skadar and Vlora, they mingled with the Italians and Franks, and so, during the Caliphate of Omar, produced a language between Arabic and Frankish.

[George S.]

I read somewhere that the modern albanian has no roots to the illyrians but they are descended from albania in asia!The croats & serbs to answer frank ? the croats & serbs came from Iran persia 1000 years ago.compare that arrival with the macedonians who have allways been in macedonia.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Now couple that with the fact that over 50% of the words in Albanian are of non-Albanian (Shqip) origin, many of which actually derive from Latin, one of the people most surely referred to as 'Frankish' by Celebi.

I must say, very interesting Onur, I have also heard that some grammar and structure of the Albanian language is not common for IE tongues. Can this bear some sort of relation to the Avars and Bulgars, who appear to have been Turkic with some Aryan influences? Is it possible for the Albanians to have (at least partially) descended from them?

[Sovius]

Perhaps, the title of this thread should read:

Pseudo-Scientific Literature Resulting from the Croatian Ethnocide during the Austrian Occupation of Illyria

Or

PSLRFTCEDTAOOI for short, kind of just rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?