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Old 02-15-2011, 01:24 AM   #241
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Excellent work by the way.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:09 PM   #242
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Continued on from here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...lgarica&page=7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot
There is a plethora of historical facts emphasizing Albanian character of the above-mentioned region. I'm quite surprised how an educated Macedonian like you has no knowledge for something that is so self-evident.
That 'plethora' of information doesn't go against what I suggested before, namely, that Albanians spread to these regions as a result of the Ottoman Empire. And that fact is evidenced in the texts you provided, as the Albanians living around Morava or Nish were all Muslims. There is no evidence of permanent Albanian habitation in these regions prior to the Ottomans and the conversion of your people (at least most of them) to Islam. If you think you're able to prove otherwise, I am happy to hear your arguments.
Quote:
More or less.
Well, you'd be wrong if you were, because there was no such thing at the time. The Serbs, like other Orthodox Christians, belonged to the 'Rum' (Roman) millet. That the Serb identity was used by others in the region as a descriptor for an Orthodox Christian is another matter, because it wasn't considered a millet until much later. The sources you posted from the Serbian authors are interesting though, thanks for that.
Quote:
But if you ask me if Albanians as nation are more consistent than Serbs, my Answer would be YES........Albanians were consolidated as an ethnic group which trace back its origin to the Illyrians and the Epirotes.
Epirot, that sounds like something extracted straight out of Mein Kampf. Your highly bastardised (look the word up, I don't mean it in a derogatory way) language should be an indication of how non-consistent your people have been as an ethnic group.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:26 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Your highly bastardised (look the word up, I don't mean it in a derogatory way) language should be an indication of how non-consistent your people have been as an ethnic group.
Actually that's a very outdated concept. Most Turkish loanwords have been removed and replaced since the 19th century.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:03 AM   #244
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Actually, it isn't. I don't recall mentioning Turkish loanwords as a significant factor, do you (even though most of your kinsmen have Turkish or Arabic first and last names)? Try seeing how many Slavic, Greek and Latin words there are, I can assure you that they collectively outweigh the 'Shqipe' words in your language. Or perhaps you too were having a Mein Kampf moment by referring to the 'consistency' of Albanian ethnicity since antiquity?
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:12 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
That 'plethora' of information doesn't go against what I suggested before, namely, that Albanians spread to these regions as a result of the Ottoman Empire. And that fact is evidenced in the texts you provided, as the Albanians living around Morava or Nish were all Muslims. There is no evidence of permanent Albanian habitation in these regions prior to the Ottomans and the conversion of your people (at least most of them) to Islam. If you think you're able to prove otherwise, I am happy to here your arguments.
But then how do you explain the common similarities found between Albanian and Rumanian. The very fact that Albanians and Rumanians share either linguistic and cultural components has lead many scholars to suggest that Albanians and proto-Rumanians shared a common frontier at least since Roman period. This smash the blatant myth of Albanian arrival in Kosova and adjecant areas.

http://www.promacedonia.org/en/dr/dr_map_21s.jpg

As you can see from the above map, the Albanian presence (namely in Morava valley) is quite close with the Rumanian speaking areas (Vlachs of Nishava and Timok valley). This long vicinity between two peoples was snapped when Serbian conquering armies took the control of Toplica region (inhabited by Albanians).

Quote:
The sources you posted from the Serbian authors are interesting though, thanks for that.
You're welcome! In fact, I have to research much more in my data base because I collected a lot of similar documents (written by Serb intellectuals) pointing out the same story as Greece's case.

Quote:
Epirot, that sounds like something extracted straight out of Mein Kampf. Your highly bastardised (look the word up, I don't mean it in a derogatory way) language should be an indication of how non-consistent your people have been as an ethnic group
I would be the last man in earth to maintain Nazistic doctrines about racial purity and other craps. I apologize if my post was perceived so. Albanians as every Balkans people received certain foreign ingridents (linguistic borrowings, etc, etc). But Albanian people in its genesis was not emerged by absorption of foreign peoples. For instance, the Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks emerged as nations (of course with the generous helps of Europe) by assimilating various Orthodox peoples.
Therefore my point was that Albanians and Serbs are totally different stories...I mean they differs in their consolidation as nations.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:04 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot
But then how do you explain the common similarities found between Albanian and Rumanian.
Define those similarities, I have often heard of them, but aside from a few common lexical examples, I can't seem to find anything on the internet. Please use verifiable examples also, and if you're going to refer to an Illyro-Dacian link from antiquity, then be specific, cite words present in today's Albanian, Romanian - and Illyrian or Dacian. Let's see how many there are.
Quote:
The very fact that Albanians and Rumanians share either linguistic and cultural components has lead many scholars to suggest that Albanians and proto-Rumanians shared a common frontier at least since Roman period.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the Albanian side of that frontier was west of Romania. It could also have been east of Romania, which opens up the possibility of Proto-Albanian speakers migrating westwards across Dacia and the Balkans. I will wait for you to respond with details regarding the suggested commonalities between Albanians and Romanians, before I provide my opinion.
Quote:
As you can see from the above map, the Albanian presence (namely in Morava valley) is quite close with the Rumanian speaking areas (Vlachs of Nishava and Timok valley). This long vicinity between two peoples was snapped when Serbian conquering armies took the control of Toplica region (inhabited by Albanians).
Actually, you're timing is wrong, because Slavic-speakers lived in those areas well before that map was produced. I don't think you responded to my previous question - where are all of the Albanian place-names in these areas?
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:29 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Define those similarities, I have often heard of them, but aside from a few common lexical examples, I can't seem to find anything on the internet. Please use verifiable examples also, and if you're going to refer to an Illyro-Dacian link from antiquity, then be specific, cite words present in today's Albanian, Romanian - and Illyrian or Dacian. Let's see how many there are.

?
Actually, this matter is very complex since no general study has been made yet. Scholars who have made such claims were concentrated only in some points: cultural, linguistic, etc. However, I'll try in following to extract some significative details that may throw some lights in this problem.

Quote:
Albanians and Romanians have always been neighbors, except during the Slavic dominance. Their close ties reveal themselves in language, folklore, customs, traditions, clothing, and toponymy. In his work titled “Rumanische Toponomastik” (1924), Iorgu Iordan gives names that are direly linked to the Albanian, such as Arbănaşi (in Buzău), Arnăutul (Negru), Fāntāna Arnăutului, Movila Arnăutului, Arnaut Bostan-Dere (in Constantza), etc. Some authors believe that arbănaş also means Aromanian. Daco-Romans from Muntenia and Moldavia often referred to Aromanians as Albanians, because they came from the Albanian provinces, as they did in Bulgaria. It is similarly known that Albanians who settled in Romania in centuries past were known to the locals as arnăuţi and even Turks. The Romanian toponymy has a number of words other than arbănaşi and arnăut which relate to the Albanian toponymy. The Romanian-Albanian ties have remarkable features that relate to time, space, history, social-psychology, religion, culture, and art.

In short (scurt in Romanian, shkurtimisht in Albanian), Albanians and Romanians have developed commonalities in terms of spirituality, language, history, and ethnography over our multi-century civilization. Folk dances, national costumes, and behavior are all proof of their brotherhood; we may call Albanians our co-nationals who say fort bukur for foarte frumos (English translation: very beautiful).

According to Nicolae Iorga, “the Romanians’ and the Albanians’ foundation are the Illyrian-Thracian-Dacian tribes which inhabited the Balkan Peninsula and later crossed the Danube, took the name of Getae and Dacians, and later spread all over Transylvania.”

In a paper discussing Romanian-Albanian links, the editor-in-chief of a Bucharest magazine wrote, using the pseudonym Boirevista, that “There is no element in present day Romania towards which we have more affection than is the Albanian element, for it is more than twenty centuries old.” Within the Balkan language family, Albanian and Romanian are closely related. “This relatedness manifests itself in phonetics, morphology, syntax construction, phraseology, the formation of words, vocabulary.” In a paper about the origin of common linguistic elements, independent trajectories, and distinct Thracian-Dacian or Thracian-Illyrian inheritances, Professor Grigore Brāncuş underlined that “the Romanian and Albanian languages are related through a sublayer which is the source of common innovations. manian-Albanian and Thracian-Illyrian relations are ancient; for this reason, there are many similarities, parallels, interlinkages in terms of spiritual and cultural life.

http://www.zemrashqiptare.net/article/english/10194/
Quote:
About 300 words found only in Romanian or with a cognate in the Albanian language may be inherited from Dacian, many of them being related to pastoral life (for example: balaur "dragon", brānză "cheese", mal "shore"). Some linguists have asserted that Albanians are Dacians who were not romanized and migrated southward.[43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_language
Quote:
That doesn't necessarily mean that the Albanian side of that frontier was west of Romania. It could also have been east of Romania, which opens up the possibility of Proto-Albanian speakers migrating westwards across Dacia and the Balkans.
I've thought also for this possible scenario but I did not find any supportive evidence to back it up! The well-known Romanian historian I.I. Russu proposed a possible idea that Albanians may have orgniated from Carpi that were pushed from Hunnic and Slavic pressures. He went as far as to suggest that their tribal name is Albanian (Carpi <---> alb. Karpė, rock). I've dedicated much of my time in the study of Carpi culture but I haven't detected any resemblance with Albanian one. If our ancestors came really from Carpi region, then we would be called ourselves as Carpi, Dacians, etc not as Albanians. It is more plausible that proto-Albanians were not distant from western Rumania (Timoko Valley and adjecant areas). This place Albanians in the region of Dardania...so the fact that Albanians were able to influenced linguistically Proto-Romanians and at the same time to adopt Dacian elements indicate that Albanians from the remote antiquity were present in today's Kosova. So, the hypothesis of any Albanian arrival in Kosova cannot be sustained for the above reasons.

Quote:
Actually, you're timing is wrong, because Slavic-speakers lived in those areas well before that map was produced. I don't think you responded to my previous question - where are all of the Albanian place-names in these areas
Well...what are your evidences to support your claim that Slavic-speakers lived previously in those areas? About your request for any Albanian place-names in these areas, I can find out a lot of them:

Quote:
Vendbanime me A:
Alikinci, Alabana ,Arbanashka, Arbanashci, Araqa, Hasanovci (edhe Asanovic).

Vendbanime me B:
Balltiqi, Barllova, Bajshtica e Epėrme, Bajshtica e Poshtme, Balinovci, Baca, Banjska, Bajqiqi, Bajqinca, Buci, Borova, Banja e Repanjės, Bajqinovci, Bardyzi, Banja, Babviqevci, Babatica, Babishevci, Banjabara, Bajra, Batushica, Barlova, Berila, Bedila, Bellanica, Belibregu, Bellotini, Bellobregu, Bellanovci, Berxhika, Beselica, Berbatofci, Bellpola, Belegu, Bubavci, Berjana, Beashtica e Poshtme, Binovci, Bllaca, Boka, Borovci, Borinci, Bojniku, Bunovci, Bogujevci, Bujanovci, Bugujevci (nė rrethin e Jabllanicės), Buzhurana, Breznica, Bresternavi, Brallova, Brajshori, Branina, Bresi, Brezniqiqi, Breznica, Bullatovci, Buqinca, Bublica, Bufca, Burevica, Burinci, Budeci, Bumbereku, Bullaini, Bukollrami, Bukozhani, Bukovagllava, Bushtrani, Buqinca, Byqmeti i Epėrm, Byqmeti i Poshtėm, Byqmeti i Mesėm, Bugunuvci.

Vendbanime me C:
Cervaneku, Cernoverni, Cerrcavci i Epėrm, Cerrcavci i Poshtėm, Cerrnatova;

Vendbanime me Ē:
Ēestelina, Ēiftliku, Ēokoti, (njė ne qarkun e Nishit e njė nė Jabllanicė), Ēukovci.

Vendbanime me D:
Dankoviqi, Devotini, Dedinca, Devqa e Epėrme, Degermeni, Dediqi, Dekutina, Deshullovci, Dedishka, Dikovci, Dllugojnica, Dobratiqi, Debrejance, Dobrasheva, Dobridolli, Dragideli, Dragusha e Epėrme, Dragusha e Poshtme, Dranica, Dragobuzhda, Draganci, Drevina, Drenova, Drenci, Drenovci, Dubrava, Dubranja, Dubnica, Durnjaci, Dubova, Dugidelli, Dugolluka, Dublica, Dukati, Drugalevci, Dubulevi.

Vendbanime me G:
Gazdara, Gajtani, Gabinca, Graica, Granica, Gesolica, Gegla, Gerguri (nė Jabllanicė), Gerguri (nė rrethin tė Prokuples), Gojnofci, Gopnja, Gollaku, Govori, Grabofci, Gragoqevci, Grabovica, Gerbafci, Grebolica, Gllasoviku, Gllasnoviqi, Gradni, Gunjaraku, Gurivica, Gubetini, Gurgurofci, Gurgurova, Gurgora.

Vendbanime me Gj:
Gjemnica, Gjelekari, Gjelekara, Gjaka e Epėrme, Gjaka e Poshtme, Gjukella, Gjorgjefci, Gjushica, Gjingjusha, Gjurkofci, Gjurefci, Gjikolli, Gjurgjefci.

Vendbanime me H:
Hergaja, Huruglica e Epėrme, Huruglica e Poshtme.

Vendbanime me I:
Igrishta (e Vranjės), Igrishta (e Pusta Rekes), Ivankulla, Ivanja, Izumna.

Vendbanime me J:
Jabuqa, Jakofci, Jashanica e Epėrme, Jashanica e Poshtme, Jellashinca.

Vendbanime me K':
Kamenica, Katundmorina (rrethi i Nishit), Komotena, Kumareva, Kallabofci, Katuni, Kacabaqi, Katiqi, Kapiti, Klaiqi, Klisurica, Konjufci, Koprani, Konxheli, Korbevci, Kodra, Konjuva, Konjuhi, Kojqiqi, Koqane, Kremenata, Kertoku, Krivaqa, Krushevica, Kerqmara e Epėrme, Kerqmara e Poshtme, Kovanlloku, Kutllovci i Epėrm, Kutllovci i Poshtėm, Kuqi, Krushevica, Kutllova, Kutllat, Kozmaqi, Koznica, Kordinci i Poshtėm, Kordinci i Epėrm, Kastrati, Kallabovci, Kalimanca, Koshareva, Konjina.

Vendbanime me L:
Legatica, Lebofci, Levqa e Epėrme, Lebana, Leci, Leskovabara, Lepanja, Leboshtica, Letovnishte, Leturna ,Lumeqi, Lepenica, Lipovica, Lusha.

Vendbanime me Ll:
Llallinca, Llazalla, Llapashtica, Llozana, Llozna, Llopetinca, Llugiqi, Llumnica, Llukova, Llugari.

Vendbanime me M:
Manistirishta, Masurica, Magashi, Mazareqi, Maleivci, Makovci, Magova, Magarenja, Marovci, Maqedonci, Maqestena, Magjera, Maqina, Maqkovci, Matarova, Matajevci i Madh, Matajevci i Vogėl, Merqezi, Megja, Maqkovci, Mekishi, Merofci, Mesgraja, Megjuana, Mehanja, Mealica, Mernica, Medveci, (Merqa, Mellova, Merveshi, Mekishi, Meshica, Merkonja, Merlaku, Merkoviqi), tė gjithė kėta emra nė kllapa janė me e paza pas M, Megjurova, Milina, Miroqica, Mikullofci, Mikulani, Mirovci, Miroshevci, Milivojci, Miskiqi, Mirosllavi, Mirinca, Mihalica, Molla e Kuqe, Momqilli, Mugosha, Muzaqa, Muqena, Muleviqi.

Vendbanime me N:
Novosella, Neredovci i Epėrm, Neredovci i Poshtėm, Negosavla, Novosella (nėqarkune e Toplicės), Novosella (nė qarkune e Vranjės), Neveda, Nelaku, Nesushta.

Vendbanime me O:
Orlishte, Orana, Orlana, Oraqi, Obertinca, Obllaqina, Ostrogllava, Obarda, Orashci.

Vendbanime me P:
Paqarada, Parada, Pasjaqa, Pasjaqa (Nish), Pavllovci, Pallata, Pashici, Petrovci, Pevatica, Perunika, Pestishi, Pestini, Petrila, Pertata, Peqenci, Pokofci, Pervetica, Peroshtica, Pllana e Madhe, Pllana e Vogėl, Plakova, Plloqniku, (pėrkatesisht Pllashniku i Epėrm), Pllashniku i Poshtėm, Poterzhani, Popovci, Popova, Poturqoi, Pareqi, Pollomi, Pollomi (nė qarkun e Vranjės), Pollomi (nė qarkun e Prokuples), Prebeza e Epėrme, Prebeza e Poshtme, Prekoqna, Pretreshnja, Prekodelli, Prekedini, Prevallci, Preboji, Preseka, Prekopqellnika, Prekopuca, Prekorogja, Prekashtica, Preobrazhenja, Preopollci, Piskala, Pishteva, Pustoshillova, Pustovojllovci, Pukovci, Pupovica.

Vendbanime me Q:
Qyqalla, Qunglla.

Vendbanime me R:
Radeci, Radovci, Rabovci, Rafuna, Rakovica, Rashka, Rashica, Rastelica, Raqa, Rasuhaqa, Ramabaja, Ramnishta, Ravnishori, Ravnareka, Rashevci, Rataji, Rastavica, Rumanovci, Raputofci, Rastavica, Rasturrula, Ragjenovci, Radinovci, Ramadeni, Relinci, Reēica e Epėrme, Reēica e Poshtme (nė Toplic), Teēica e Leskovcit, Retkoceri i Epėrm, Retkoceri i Poshtėm, Resinci, Ribinci, Rudari, Rukofci, Runjiku, Rubofci.

Vendbanime me S:
Samakova, Sellova, Seoce, Sekicolli, Seqinica, Selishta, Sekiraqa, Sllavnica, Sllamniku ,Sllabniku, Sllatina, Siarina, Slishani, Slivnica, Slivova, Simnica, Sinanova, Sodarca, Skobari, Skoverqa, Statovci, Stublla, Stashillova, Starasella, Starobanja, Surdulica, Suvidolli, Suvojnica, Suvamorava, Sudimla, Svinjisishte, Sfirca, Svinjarina, Sfarqa e Epėrme, Sfarqa e Poshtme, Sagonjeva, Samarinci, Sagorjeva, Studenci, Spanca, Smrdani, Stropska, Smiloviqi, Stullca.

Vendbanime me Sh:
Sharprinci, Shahiqi, Shqrrlinci, Shahinovci, Shatra e Epėrme, Shatra e Poshtme, Sharci, Shanalluka, Shuliqi, (pėrkatesisht: Shylyshi), Shillova, Shipovci, Shishmanovci, Shirokonjeva, Shulemaja, Shushnjaku, Shtullca.

Vendbanime me T:
Talirofci, Terstena, Ternava e Poshtme, Ternave e Epėrme, Ternava (Nish), (Terpeza, Terrha, Termkolli, Terbunja e Epėrme, Terbunja e Poshtme, Ternavillazi) tė gjithė kėta emra nė kllapa janė me e-paza pas T, Tena, Tihofci, Toqani, Toverlani, Toshi, Topllaci, Topanica, Togaqevci, Treqaku, Trebinja, Tullari (Jabllanic), Tullari (Prokuple), Tmava, Turjana, Tupalla, Tupalla (Nish), Turqica, Tubuzhde.

Vendbanime me U:
Umi, Uzllok, Ushi.

Vendbanime me V:
Vardeniku, Vardini, Vasiqevci, (Verbica, Verbova, Verbovci, Vertopi) tė gjithė kėta emra nė kllapa janė me e-paza pas V, Vrella, Vagermeni, Veqa, Vllasa e Epėrme, Vuqaku, Vishesella, Vitosha, Vllahinja, Vllasa (e Prokuplės), Vllasa (e qarkut tė Vranjės), Vllahova, Vova, Vojllovci i Epėrm, Vodica, Vojiznova, Verbovci i Epėrm, Vrezhina e Poshtme, Visoka, Vershefci, Vranovci, Vuqjaku, Vukojefci, Vuqa, Vujanova, Vujiznova (Nish).

Vendbanime me Z:
Zagragja, Zaravinja, Zllatokoni, Zakishenje, Zuqa, Zllata, Zubuvci, Zebica.

Vendbanime me Zh:
Zhapska, Zhegrova, Zhdelova, Zhinipotoku, Zhitorogja, Zhuqa, Zhuqi.

Qytete:
Prokupla, Kushumlia, Leskoci, Vranja, Nishi, Sharqoj, Sheherqoj (Piroti), Bellapallanka, Tėrni.
P.S: Some of them were probably Slavic but doesn't mean that they were peopled by Slavic-speakings.

This thread is getting interesting because it's a great opportunity to reveal our knowledge and research there! It's more than welcomed your contribution!
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:47 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot
Actually, this matter is very complex since no general study isn't made yet. Scholars who have made such claims were concentrated only in some points: cultural, linguistic, etc.
So why have you cited it in support of your argument, if you aren't able to adequately elaborate?
Quote:
In his work titled “Rumanische Toponomastik” (1924), Iorgu Iordan gives names that are direly linked to the Albanian, such as Arbănaşi (in Buzău), Arnăutul (Negru), Fāntāna Arnăutului, Movila Arnăutului, Arnaut Bostan-Dere (in Constantza), etc.
I doubt any of them were there prior to the Ottoman Empire.
Quote:
Folk dances, national costumes, and behavior are all proof of their brotherhood................Within the Balkan language family, Albanian and Romanian are closely related. “This relatedness manifests itself in phonetics, morphology, syntax construction, phraseology, the formation of words, vocabulary"...........Professor Grigore Brāncuş underlined that “the Romanian and Albanian languages are related through a sublayer which is the source of common innovations. manian-Albanian and Thracian-Illyrian relations are ancient; for this reason, there are many similarities, parallels, interlinkages in terms of spiritual and cultural life.
I have never seen such claims as the above corroborated in detail. And the suggestion of a Thraco-Illyrian link is dubious on linguistic grounds, because (attested) Thracian and Illyrian combined share far more lexical similarities with Balto-Slavic languages than they do with Albanian and/or Romanian.
Quote:
About 300 words found only in Romanian or with a cognate in the Albanian language may be inherited from Dacian, many of them being related to pastoral life (for example: balaur "dragon", brānză "cheese", mal "shore"). Some linguists have asserted that Albanians are Dacians who were not romanized and migrated southward.
All speculative without any further elaboration. Furthermore, I doubt there are many words which are common to Albanian, Romanian and Thracian or Illyrian. Happy to see any evidence to the contrary.
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It is more plausible that proto-Albanians were not distant from western Rumania (Timoko Valley and adjecant areas). This place Albanians in the region of Dardania...so the fact that Albanians were able to influenced linguistically Proto-Romanians and at the same time to adopt Dacian elements indicate that Albanians from the remote antiquity were present in today's Kosova....
Why is it plausible? What Dacian 'elements' have Albanians adopted? When and from whom, the Dacians or Romanians? Your reasoning thus far, although it may sound good to yourself as an Albanian, is not at all convincing.
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Well...what are your evidences to support your claim that Slavic-speakers lived previously in those areas?
You can start with the fact that Slavic place-names, hydronyms, etc far outnumber and predate Albanian and Turkish ones in the region. Those areas, like most of the Balkans, were generally controlled by Slavic-speaking peoples from the 6th century, and that remained the case until the Ottomans invaded.
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About your request for any Albanian place-names in these areas, I can find out a lot of them:
Do you have a link? Which particular areas are those place-names located in, and when were they recorded?
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P.S: Some of them were probably Slavic but doesn't mean that they were peopled by Slavic-speakings.
Some of them? Epirot, most of them are place-names in Slavic languages, so most would be peopled (or would have been at some point) by Slavic-speaking peoples.
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This thread is getting interesting because it's a great opportunity to reveal our knowledge and research there! It's more than welcomed your contribution!
Likewise, look forward to your response to the above.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:11 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Epirot View Post
This thread is getting interesting because it's a great opportunity to reveal our knowledge and research there! It's more than welcomed your contribution!
OK, here is my contribution;

You cant reach to any point with Albanian-Romanian connection because it`s genetically, historically and linguistically proven that today`s Latin like speaking Romanians/Vlachs are nothing but various Balkanic people who has been assimilated by Latin people. Most probably their linguistic assimilation has been completed soon after crusader raids around 13th century.

So, in regards to genetics, Romanians are relatives of literally all current Balkanic peoples. The closest relatives of them are probably Hungarians but i also saw some DNA researches who finds genetic similarity between Turks and Romanians. So, in genetics wise, They are various Balkanic people who shows minor resemblances with medieval Latins.

So, your Albanian connection with Romanians doesn't prove anything because literally every Balkanic people connected with them, both linguistically and genetically.


Also, I have read another interesting similarity between Albanians and Romanians b4. AFAIK, Albanian language has much more Latin words and grammatical forms than any other Balkan language and most likely Albanian language adopted these Latin forms, words before 20th century. So in that sense, we can say that Latins has been fully assimilated Romanians/Vlachs in linguistic wise but Albanian language also shows traces of similar linguistic shift(or assimilation, change, whatever you call) in medieval era, not evident as Romanian language tough. Genetics wise, Albanian people has no relation at all with Latin peoples, just like Romanians. Ofc Albanians are genetically related with other Balkanic people again.

Last edited by Onur; 05-03-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:18 PM   #250
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Here is a text of an article regarding Albanians in Romania:
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An Albanian community inside the Danubian Principalities was first attested in Wallachia under Prince Michael the Brave: a report drafted by Habsburg authorities in Transylvania specified that 15,000 Albanians had been allowed to cross north of the Danube in 1595; Călineşti (a village in present-day Floreşti, Prahova County) was one of their places of settlement, as evidenced in a document issued by Michael's rival and successor, Simion Movilă, who confirmed their right to reside in the locality. The community's presence was first recorded in Bucharest around 1628. In Moldavia, an ethnic Albanian, Vasile Lupu, became Prince in 1634.

The Albanian community was strengthened during the Phanariote epoch, when numerous immigrants opened businesses in a large number of cities and towns, and were employed as bodyguards of Wallachian princes and boyars (being usually recorded as arbănaşi, akin to Arvanites, and its variant arnăuţi, borrowed from the Turkish arnaut). In 1820, a survey indicated that there were 90 traders from the Rumelian town of Arnaut Kioy present in the Wallachian capital, most of whom were probably Albanians and Aromanians.
As can be seen, Albanian influence in the region of Dacia begins from the 16th century - during Ottoman times, as I had suggested previously. As the favoured mercenaries of the Ottomans, Albanians were able to spread out across the empire in such a way - all thanks to the Turks. Take note also of the fact that several thousand Albanians settled north of the Danube. Now see the below from an article regarding the Romanian language:
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......the first printed book of Romanian grammar in 1780, by Samuil Micu and Gheorghe Șincai. There, the Romanian dialect spoken north of the Danube is called lingua Daco-Romana to emphasize its origin and its area of use, which includes the former Roman province of Dacia (though it is spoken also south of the Danube, in Dobrudja, Central Serbia and northern Bulgaria).
Albanian has been recorded in written form no earlier than the 15th century, whereas Romanian was first attested in written texts from the 16th century, and its first grammar was printed in the 18th century. All of this happened during the Ottoman period (note: although the first text in Albanian was just prior to the fall of Skenderbeg's realm, it was a mere baptismal sentence, so not that informative).

Could the linguistic commonalities between Albanian and Romanian have resulted from interaction during Ottoman times? I would like to see how one would argue against such an assertion.
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