The Macedonian Sun & (Original) Flag

[Karposh]

Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce

...I guess the question has to be asked if the blue in the centre of the sun isn't a poppy what exactly is it and why was it included?

Well, after learning that the poppy symbolised death and eternal sleep in ancient times, I'm very open to the idea (now) that that's the reason why it was in fact included rather than being just decorative.

Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce

...Do you just not like the way the Macedonian Sun looks with the blue in the middle or is it the fact it's not seen on every version of the Sun that has been found so you think it's unnecessary?

All of the above MM. Totally unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce

...I guess some people would definitely have a preference, I actually don't mind either version. I'm not familiar with the fleur di lis, was this also found in the Kutlesh burials?

The fleur de lis can be seen right around the burial casket with the blue flower decorations (which I'm more inclined to refer to as funerary poppy decorations now). Not sure if it's on the other casket. I haven't bothered to check.

[Karposh]

Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce

In terms of the Kutlesh discoveries is it possible the one burial that has the sun with less rays was from an earlier time period? I have heard that the rays on the Macedonian sun represent the number of Macedonian tribes multiple times both from Mario's History Talks but also other instances. I don't really know where it comes from and whether it's from some evidence or theory, I would have to let someone with more knowledge on the subject enlighten me.

It depends if you believe the current narrative that the more elaborate burial casket contained the bones of King Phillip II and the other casket with the 12 rays contained the bones of one of his wives. If that's true, then it's hard to argue the rays representing the tribes point of view since both husband and wife were from the same era. If, on the other hand, they got it wrong, and the two burial caskets are from different eras, then who knows...

[Chicho Makedonski]

Originally Posted by sydney

The unfortunate fact for Macedonians is that a unified viewpoint on our history is still developing, and therefore we have all these theories as to why things are the way they are.

Chicho, considering the above, can you please provide some links referencing the poppy was a royal symbol and that the sun’s rays were representative of Macedonian tribes? I’ve never heard of either of these before.

To be honest i can’t exactly remember where I read up on it, but I’ve seen Macedonians on several social media pages a while back speak of the rays representing the Macedonian tribes as before Philip II’s reign there was only 8 rays. But as Ancient Macedonia grew and more tribes formed the Macedonian nation, it reached 16 tribes and the final product of the Macedonian sun consists 16 rays. So by logic and common sense it’s by far the most accurate assumption and makes the most sense.

As for the poppy I’ve read up and seen YouTube videos on Macedonia producing the most opium in the world, obviously showcasing that Poppy’s have alway been frequent in Macedonia. Then I saw Mario’s History Talks bring it up on YouTube and explain it further how it was clearly a symbol of Macedonia’s nature. As for Karposh’s finding of the poppy supposedly representing death in ancient culture. It mentions the red part of the poppy represented death/blood, but the poppy found on the tomb is Blue. So I’m not sure if this is the exact reasoning of the poppy placed on Philip II’s tomb. Who knows.

[Carlin]

Anyone heard of or know more about this book from 1969?

The old Macedonians, by Duško Hr Konstantinov (Published 1969 in Bitola).

URL:
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1733...evni_makedonci

Thanks!

[Rogi]

Prompted by another, currently active thread, there are a series of images on this thread that show the use of the Macedonian Sun as a symbol, prior to 1978.

Any chance we can fix those now broken images?

Also, I didnt see in this thread the image of the pillar from the Church in Bitola from the 1850s

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ma...onia-Cross.jpg

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Rogi

Prompted by another, currently active thread, there are a series of images on this thread that show the use of the Macedonian Sun as a symbol, prior to 1978.

Any chance we can fix those now broken images?

Also, I didnt see in this thread the image of the pillar from the Church in Bitola from the 1850s

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ma...onia-Cross.jpg

I believe there's an even older church form a village near Nevrokop that displays the sun as well; probably in this thread

[Carlin]

The Coats of Arms and Other Forms of State Emblem Proposed for the Republic of Macedonia, and the Process of Their Adoption, 1992–2014

by Jovan Jonovski

https://www.mdpi.com/2313-5778/2/4/5...397DE_7Ykhwu2o

[Liberator of Makedonija]

How the lion was not adopted as the coat of arms I will never know

[Risto the Great]

The obvious choice

[Karposh]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

How the lion was not adopted as the coat of arms I will never know

Being the modern, progressive and pluralistic Republic that it is, the lion has never really stood a chance (and probably never will). The symbol has to be sensitive to Macedonia's minorities as well as not be seen as offending the neighbours.