United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Buktop

Once again evasion seems to be your weapon of choice, could you answer these questions for me, as I have obliged you on numerous occasions?

In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?

Buktop, make your point (which I already know) so that I can sink it already.

[Jankovska]

Originally Posted by Buktop

Now I take personal offense to this, some of my best friends are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they are not MURDERERS. You need to check your fucking facts, whatever you believe to be the agenda of the campaign in Afghanistan and Iraq, the JOBS of the soldiers there is to restore peace and to police the territories until their own police are competent enough to do it themselves.

If you would like, I'll arrange for you to meet with some of these so called "murderers" maybe then you'll understand what is actually going on out there, rather than believing some bullshit you read in a fucking magazine.

And I take personal offence to be from the same country as someone like you who supports an unjust war, murdering of innocent people. You should get your fucking facts straight and maybe for one moment think about the Afgani people, or why should you. America's arse is so big you can see far from it so carry on licking. Everyone who is in support of that war has blood on their hands. If you are offended by that, than big fucking deal. I get offended to see how people get murdered and raped every day and no one can give a flying fuck. He is offended? Let's all sit and give a fuck about you and all turn a blind eye to the Afgani people.

[Buktop]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Yet more ambiguity from UMD...although you've seen it so many times before, here is there support for these agreements - they not only support them, but there is the sense that they are marketing them as Macedonia's saviours.

UMD supports and legitimises these two agreements by arguing that they should be strictly enforced.

Interim Accord

NATO: The Case for Macedonia
12 March 2009
http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/t...?doc_id=853200

At the April 2008 NATO Summit in Bucharest, Macedonia's invitation to join NATO was denied when Greece vetoed it, based on its unilateral objections to Macedonia's constitutional name. This veto directly violated the Interim Accord between Greece and Macedonia, brokered by the United Nations in 1995 following a three-year economic embargo Greece imposed on Macedonia. The accord stipulates that Greece will not block Macedonia from joining international organizations, as long as Macedonia does so under the UN-brokered name, "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia," pending a UN-facilitated, mutually acceptable name resolution.

A name to reckon with
Sunday, May 4, 2008
Meto Koloski's Opinion Piece in the Washington Times
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008...o-reckon-with/

...It was Greece, not Macedonia, that rejected the most recent proposal to resolve the "name dispute." Moreover, Greece's veto violated the 1995 Interim Accord that it signed with Macedonia, which binds Greece's right to veto Macedonia's NATO bid or any other international organization that Macedonia would like to join as long as it joins under the U.N. provisional reference term used to identify Macedonia...

This is not only supporting and legitimising the Interim Accord, but is implying that Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) was a good proposal and condemning Greece for rejecting the proposal.

UMD Sends Letter to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Regarding Greece
Thursday, 14 February 2008
http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/305/51/

...American policy on Macedonia’s NATO admission is in alignment with Article 11 of the Interim Accord, which bars Greece from impeding Macedonia’s accession to international bodies, including NATO, as long as Macedonia accedes under the Provisional Reference.

UMD Dismayed By Greece's Veto of Macedonia
Thursday, 03 April 2008
http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/321/53/

…The Greek veto violates the 1995 United Nations brokered Interim Accord between Macedonia and Greece, which barred Greece from using the "name dispute" to impede Macedonia's NATO accession…


The Framework Agreement

NATO: The Case for Macedonia
12 March 2009
http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/t...?doc_id=853200

In 2001, Albanian extremists attacked Macedonian police officers and burned villages, demanding more rights in education, employment, and political representation. Through a U.S. - EU brokered agreement, the conflict was resolved and Macedonian-Albanians were accorded full rights, including higher education courses in the Albanian language and a 25% set-aside for the army, police force, and public administration. Today, Macedonian-Albanians fully participate in social and economic development, working with their countrymen to ensure the nation's membership into NATO and the EU.
In this Meto makes the Albanian extremists look like 'freedom fighters' struggling for human rights!!!


Why can't UMD just unambigiously renounce these two agreements, like the vast majority of Diaspora organisations?

They have...

The point of these announcements was to point out the facts that the "agreement" that the UN has enforced between Macedonia and Greece had been broken (whether or not it was valid) thereby further reducing its significance in diplomatic relations with Greece, and demonstrating what a farce it was to begin with.

And I still have no idea how you derived support for the Interim agreement from a statement declaring it was broken.

[Buktop]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Buktop, make your point (which I already know) so that I can sink it already.

Answer the questions I posed to you, unless they are too hard for you...

In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?

These are simple questions, anyone with a basic knowledge of Republican government can answer.

[Buktop]

Originally Posted by Jankovska

And I take personal offence to be from the same country as someone like you who supports an unjust war, murdering of innocent people. You should get your fucking facts straight and maybe for one moment think about the Afgani people, or why should you. America's arse is so big you can see far from it so carry on licking. Everyone who is in support of that war has blood on their hands. If you are offended by that, than big fucking deal. I get offended to see how people get murdered and raped every day and no one can give a flying fuck. He is offended? Let's all sit and give a fuck about you and all turn a blind eye to the Afgani people.

Once again, this time maybe so you can understand it, the soldiers are there as POLICE,
they cannot shoot people unless people shoot at them,
their job also includes teaching the locals how to become police so that bad guys can't do bad things anymore...

By the way, I wonder how many cow's were slaughtered to make those glamorous Jimmy Choo's you love so much considering that 90% of their products are leather. Just while we are on the topic of Murder...

[Jankovska]

Originally Posted by Buktop

Once again, this time maybe so you can understand it, the soldiers are there as POLICE,
they cannot shoot people unless people shoot at them,
their job also includes teaching the locals how to become police so that bad guys can't do bad things anymore...

By the way, I wonder how many cow's were slaughtered to make those glamorous Jimmy Choo's you love so much considering that 90% of their products are leather. Just while we are on the topic of Murder...

Yes they don't kill, oni cuvat straza dodeka drugi ubivat. Ne po vrat po sija.

[Vangelovski]

Ok then Buktop, we'll open it to UMD to tell us exactly and unambigiously.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Thank you Jankovska.

[UMDiaspora.org]

UMD does not support the Interim Accord, and believes it is an illegal document Macedonia was forced to sign. However, Macedonia did sign the Interim Accord (UMD and the Macedonian Diaspora are not responsible for this) and UMD has highlighted aspects of Greece violating the Interim Accord in its press releases. Greece has not ratified the Interim Accord in its parliament, thus technically as Vangelovski states this document is null and void. Why the Macedonian government persists on negotiating in line with the Interim Accord we do not know. What we do know, and encouraged the Macedonian government to do was to cease the Interim Accord right after Bucharest as Greece violated Article 11 of the Interim Accord (whether we like the Interim Accord or not), and unfortunately, the Macedonian government did not and continued the talks under the terms of the Interim Accord.

[Prolet]

Come on knock this shit off

This is getting ridiculous and dumb, all of the sudden you are anti-Macedonian if you support our troops going to Iraq or Afghanistan. Like it our not our soldiers are in Afghanistan and thats that its the administration thats sending them there that is to blame not the average soldiers who are doing their duty and serving their country.

Lets not turn this into an us vs them battle, we dont need anymore divisions and blame eachother when the decisions are already made.