United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

Everything in that article was a statement of fact.

"The Republic of Macedonia has always taken the position that it does not hold exclusive rights over the name Macedonia in geographic, cultural, historic, or commercial terms."

This is actually a joint MHRMI-UMD talking point when attending the meeting with Ambassador Nimitz in 2005 and 2007, and nothing more than a statement of fact. Read press release by UMD and MHRMI: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/12/9/

Meto,

Is it also a statement of "fact" that Macedonia is willing to compromise on its name?

Which Macedonians (other than UMD and our vassal politicians) do you know of that do not claim exlcusive rights to the name Macedonia?

I think its time you revisit your "facts" and stop confusing "fact" with your opinion.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Meto,

Is it also a statement of "fact" that Macedonia is willing to compromise on its name?

Which Macedonians (other than UMD and our vassal politicians) do you know of that do not claim exlcusive rights to the name Macedonia?

I think its time you revisit your "facts" and stop confusing "fact" with your opinion.

Tom,

Meto isn't interested in the truth.

Leveraging our identity for club membership is something the Metoists will not give up lightly, because they have too much to gain from it personally, and professionally.

A civilised, open and honest acknowledgement of the recent history, and recent injustices, was always the best approach with regard to dealing with the Greeks.

There will never be any kind of political reconciliation between the Macedonians and the invading Greeks until some concensus can be reached about the history of the last century.

Talking openly and honestly about the past is not about creating territorical pretensions, but about establishing some kind of a concesus about the past. Its also a far more civilised, rationale and sophisticated way of achieving full recognition from the Hellenic Republic, than the current approach which is to 'hack' and 'stumble' our way toward some artificial 'solution' to what is in fact a lie.

The Metoist position, that Greeks can be Macedonians, too; that we do not have an exclusive 'claim' says nothing about the validity or truth of a claim. As far as they are concerned one claim, is as good as the next, and equal to the next. You have to understand that only a political whore would adopt such a position. You have to consider that the Metoist idea that Greeks can be Macedonians, too (that they have an equally valid claim), only works if one completely disregards the historical injustices of the last century, which brings me to my original point. That is why a civilised, open and honest discussion about the events of the last century, need to be made, by Macedonian politicians so that they can challenge prejudices in Greece, and come to some kind of an understanding.

Instead, what we are witnesing right now from Meto and the Macedonian government is a SILENCING of THESE HISTORICAL FACTS; its highly irrational behaviour, and taking the historical truth and the past out of the political equation denies us natural justice, and undermines our historical relationship to the land, and our culture. But consider also that while Metoists want to 'by pass' history, Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that Meto has been working for the Greeks and supporting their position fully, within the framework of these negotiations. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was where alot of their money comes from - I mean here we have a diaspora organisation that is actually promoting the Interim Accord (We know whats in it, and so does Meto, but most Macedonians don't). The Interim Accord is forcing us to use our national identity as a bargaining chip. Its also worth nothings that Meto will stay silent on the question of whether Greeks were from a historical point of view, Macedonians, too (clearly they weren't).

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Pelister

Tom,

Meto isn't interested in the truth.

Leveraging our identity for club membership is something the Metoists will not give up lightly, because they have too much to gain from it personally, and professionally.

A civilised, open and honest acknowledgement of the recent history, and recent injustices, was always the best approach with regard to dealing with the Greeks.

There will never be any kind of political reconciliation between the Macedonians and the invading Greeks until some concensus can be reached about the history of the last century.

Talking openly and honestly about the past is not about creating territorical pretensions, but about establishing some kind of a concesus about the past. Its also a far more civilised, rationale and sophisticated way of achieving full recognition from the Hellenic Republic, than the current approach which is to 'hack' and 'stumble' our way toward some artificial 'solution' to what is in fact a lie.

The Metoist position, that Greeks can be Macedonians, too; that we do not have an exclusive 'claim' says nothing about the validity or truth of a claim. As far as they are concerned one claim, is as good as the next, and equal to the next. You have to understand that only a political whore would adopt such a position. You have to consider that the Metoist idea that Greeks can be Macedonians, too (that they have an equally valid claim), only works if one completely disregards the historical injustices of the last century, which brings me to my original point. That is why a civilised, open and honest discussion about the events of the last century, need to be made, by Macedonian politicians so that they can challenge prejudices in Greece, and come to some kind of an understanding.

Instead, what we are witnesing right now from Meto and the Macedonian government is a SILENCING of THESE HISTORICAL FACTS; its highly irrational behaviour, and taking the historical truth and the past out of the political equation denies us natural justice, and undermines our historical relationship to the land, and our culture. But consider also that while Metoists want to 'by pass' history, Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that Meto has been working for the Greeks and supporting their position fully, within the framework of these negotiations. Its also worth nothings that Meto will stay silent on the question of whether Greeks were from a historical point of view, Macedonians, too (clearly they weren't).

Pelister,

You make some legitimate points, particularly in relation to UMD's belief that Greeks and Macedonians have a "shared" history and culture and that Greeks have an equal claim to our identity and all that is associated with it.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Pelister,

You make some legitimate points, particularly in relation to UMD's belief that Greeks and Macedonians have a "shared" history and culture and that Greeks have an equal claim to our identity and all that is associated with it.

The Metoist notion that the Greeks have a legitimate 'claim' is a deeply troubling one for all Macedonians. In a political vacuum, they certainly do have a 'claim' but the question as to whether its valid, was bypassed by Meto and the government, too quickly and easily and this made me very uneasy. Its deeply unsettling stuff. The political whores are not interested in an actual and genuine regard for the historical injustices committed against us. The events of the last century have yet to be accounted for - no explanation, no exposition, no open and honest discussion. How can we reconcile our political differences if we can't come to some agreement or acknowledgement of the past wrongs, and past injustices commited against us? This means talking about the past openly and in a civilised way - not jeopardizing everything by using our identity as a bargaining chip in an irrational political game.

[Vangelovski]

Pelister,

Its not that 'irrational' when you consider that these vassals are hoping to receive some personal reward.

[julie]

mak kafana has brought something valid to our attention . Masons . Bitov and co at the umd possibly being masons . Masons detrimental to the macedonian cause . They are first and foremost masons which would explain why they are contra to our existence with their support of the framework agreement and the genocide of our ethnicity . Umd are in name only and the more thought i give to mak kafana suggestion the board members may be masons the more it makes sense . What a wonderful way to play with their paying umd members oblivious to their cover . Wake up nashi tie se protiv makedonskiot pravoslaven narod . Zatoa imaja odnosi i vrski protiv nas so mpo . Ne im na niv gajle ako poveke ne postoje imeto makedonsko lichno isto i oti screwdriver im beshe smeshno imeto na nashi po grchki da prekerstva . Shpioni

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Originally Posted by julie

They are FIRST and foremost masons which would explain why they are contra to our existence with their support of the framework agreement and the genocide of our ethnicity

new world order - all about power and control, nothing else matters.

Julie, more the one member is a mason

[UMDiaspora.org]

UMD Congratulates Macedonia and Turkey on Council of Europe Chairmanship

The United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) congratulated Macedonia today on its successful Chairmanship of the Council of Europe’s (CoE) Committee of Ministers. UMD congratulates Turkey on assuming the new role of Chair. The Foreign Affairs Ministers of Council of Europe member states hold the chairmanship of the Committee of Ministers, the executive body of the organization, on a rotating basis in alphabetical order, for a six-month term, which Macedonian Foreign Minister Antonio Miloshoski completed yesterday.

“The leadership displayed by Minister Miloshoski and the Macedonian Government during its Chairmanship is commendable,” stated UMD Chairman of the Board Stojan Nikolov. “Macedonia has paved the way for greater and necessary reforms of the Council of Europe, but most notably, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), which is Europe’s best mechanism to monitor violations of civil and human rights in its member states.”

“The EU’s accession to the Court will only benefit Europe and its’ credibility,” stated UMD President Metodija A. Koloski. “This will hopefully ensure that EU member states like Bulgaria and Greece will fulfill and implement their civil and human rights obligations, including recognizing the existence of a Macedonian minority within their borders.”

Read full press release at http://www.umdiaspora.org

[fyrOM]

MakedonskaKafana…Julie, several people in the UMD are Mason's and if the president is he must follow rules that have nothing to do with the Macedonian diaspora and an agenda over and above everything else. If you get very close to some of these people you work for another goal.

This is of concern. I don’t know that much about the Masons but in a documentary on them one of their own was trying to make the positive point that they were humanists above nationalities and religions as their list of members would attest but later added members adhere to Mason principles first. This on the surface sounds great as political correct idiots would want us to believe but in my mind the statement raised the question of conflict of interest issues.

Pelister…Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too.

Ofcourse they can Pelister all they need to do is let Egej rejoin the Republic and any Greeks left over can apple to become Macedonian citizens as an ethnic minority. Anyone claming of mixed Greek and Macedonian blood can choose to call themselves Greek if they want to but the Macedonian in them does in NO way allow them to claim Macedonians are Greek.

OziMak…Post045
Macedonian Truth Forum > News and Politics
President Ivanov: 'Erga Omnes' doesn't work

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=4688&page=5

I would very much like clarification from the UMD organisation on the above 3 points
ie
Masons…are there any Masons n the UMD and their stand on any potential conflict of interests

Does the UMD hold the position the Greeks are Macedonians also.

Does the UMD agree with Metos statement and if not how do they differ and what action will they take against Meto.

[Risto the Great]

Wasn't Delcev a Mason?
I am more concerned with the willingness of these sellouts to play with our identity.