Russia, Ukraine and the West

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  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    Wednesday came and went. Putin didn't bombard Kiev into dust. Now, the new spin is that were it not for their posturing and vocal objections, the invasion would've happened. Maybe next week, after they enflame the situation some more.
    With Biden's approval rating falling faster than a WWII era dumb bomb his handlers have decided to go with a low risk dog and pony show consisting of alarmism and its corresponding "tough talk" to try and make an incompetent and weak administration look "strong"...even Zelenskyy has been embarrassed and frustrated by the lame theatrics of it all.
    Last edited by Phoenix; 02-16-2022, 10:05 PM.

    Comment

    • Karposh
      Member
      • Aug 2015
      • 863

      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
      With Biden's approval rating falling faster than a WWII era dumb bomb his handlers have decided to go with a low risk dog and pony show consisting of alarmism and its corresponding "tough talk" to try and make an incompetent and weak administration look "strong"...even Zelenskyy has been embarrassed and frustrated by the lame theatrics of it all.
      It's really pathetic isn't it. Do they really think that this geriatric fool will improve his image with his tough guy talk? I'm surprised he hasn't offered to take Putin behind the shed and sort him out like he did with Trump. Just contrast all the unhinged, ill-considered and dangerous rhetoric coming out of the west over the last few weeks with that of the cool, calm and collected demeanor emanating from the Russian foreign Minister, Lavrov (video linked below). I love how he makes the Russian position in a very articulate, eloquent and persuasive manner that immediately disarms anyone with preconceived ideas about Russia being the aggressor in this instant. I also love how he calmly dismisses all the "hot air" coming from Biden, almost like he is humouring some silly, immature and petulant child.

      BTW, make sure you click the closed captions button to get an automatic translation of what he says.

      Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        Originally posted by Karposh View Post
        Just contrast all the unhinged, ill-considered and dangerous rhetoric coming out of the west over the last few weeks with that of the cool, calm and collected demeanor emanating from the Russian foreign Minister, Lavrov (video linked below). I love how he makes the Russian position in a very articulate, eloquent and persuasive manner that immediately disarms anyone with preconceived ideas about Russia being the aggressor in this instant.
        Putin and Lavrov make their equivalents in the West look like bumbling amateurs. Just look at Biden and Blinken for comparison. The first one doesn't even know where he is half of the time whereas the other always looks nervous and has that annoying intonation when he speaks, like he is mimicking his former boss, Obama. The UK is just as bad. The only thing Boris did good was get Brexit over the line, then he has the audacity to get drunk with his elitist mates while the rest of the country is in lockdown. As for his foreign secretary, she made a fool out of herself during the recent trip to Russia, speaking at the same time as the interpreter and walking around Moscow with that fur hat, pretending to be some kind of female operative from a Bond movie. The great irony is that they all think they have the right to act like they are intellectually superior to Putin and Lavrov, when the opposite is true and obvious. And that is the basic attitude of most politicians from the West who deal with people from the eastern half of Europe. Russia's attempt to check NATO and EU expansion is about much more than just territory.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...tle-enthusiasm

          February 16, which some Western media reported was a potential date for an all-out attack, was declared “Unity Day” by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an attempt to reclaim it for Ukrainians. Yet, in Mariupol in eastern Ukraine, just 20km (12 miles) from the front line of a conflict with Russian-backed separatists, there was little interest. Flags were hoisted above the city’s main thoroughfare but few passers-by appeared to notice. Two men in smart suits walked the streets in high spirits, swigging from bottles of champagne. Were they celebrating? “No, it’s my birthday,” one replied. A small group of people draped in flags gathered in the city’s Freedom Square, taking pictures and shouting “Glory to Ukraine” where a monument to former Soviet leader Lenin once stood. Most of those involved appeared to be from the military.....In the capital, Kyiv, some said the international journalists reporting on a small Unity Day gathering outnumbered the Ukrainians marking it. Despite the muted response domestically, international support from allied foreign ministers and ambassadors was aired on social media and solidarity marches are planned in European cities over the coming days. The lack of action was widely mocked in Russia, where pundits revelled in the chance to dunk on Western media.
          A little embarrassing for the war-mongering politicians and media from the West. After that hit and miss, now there are reports of clashes in eastern Ukraine.
          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2022-02-17/

          MOSCOW/KYIV, Feb 17 (Reuters) - Kyiv and its Western allies said they feared that Russia might be trying to create a pretext to unleash war on Thursday, after reports of shelling across the front line in Ukraine's longstanding conflict with Moscow-backed separatists. Ukraine and the pro-Russian rebels gave conflicting accounts of Thursday's shelling and the details could not be established independently. The reports from both sides suggested an incident more serious than the ceasefire violations that are regularly reported on the line of contact in eastern Ukraine's Donbass. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the pro-Russian forces had shelled a kindergarten, in what he called a "big provocation". For its part, the Kremlin said Moscow was "seriously concerned" about reports of an escalation after the separatists accused government forces of opening fire on their territory four times in the past 24 hours.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-latest...sia/a-60821818

            Separatist authorities in eastern Ukraine on Friday said they planned to evacuate their breakaway region's residents to Russia. Denis Pushilin, head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said Russia had agreed to provide accommodation for those who leave. He said women, children and the elderly should be evacuated first. A similar announcement was made in the other self-proclaimed region, Luhansk.
            Not a good sign. The rest of the article is too long, but includes the usual, fake news, false flags, EU puppets repeating U.S. talking points, NATO pretending that countries in the alliance are at risk and increased provocations in eastern Ukraine. Meanwhile, Brandon says that Putin is not only going to invade Ukraine, but he is coming for Kiev, specifically. Any day now.
            https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02...ne-biden-putin

            Citing U.S. Intelligence, Biden Says Putin Has Decided to Invade Ukraine
            President Biden said Russia would target Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, in the coming week.
            Hard to imagine that Putin would go after Kiev, where he has limited support these days and would face considerable resistance. The constant threats, lies and mass hysteria, along with the routine dismissal of security concerns, are clearly meant to provoke Russia. And influential western personalities with ties to the defence and energy industries can already smell the cash while Zelensky prepares his own people as cannon fodder. Then there is the following pearl of wisdom.
            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-...aine/100841580

            Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said the shells were fired by a tank operated by Russia-backed separatists. Video footage released by Ukrainian police showed a hole through a brick wall in a room scattered with debris and children's toys. Separate images showed emergency workers escorting small children and teachers from a building. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said the alliance was concerned that Russia was "trying to stage a pretext for an armed attack against Ukraine". US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin described the reports as "troubling." "We've said for some time that the Russians might do something like this in order to justify a military conflict. So we'll be watching this very closely," Mr Austin told journalists after a meeting with NATO counterparts. Although the kindergarten is in Ukrainian government-held territory, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson characterised the attack as a "false flag" operation.
            So, according to the UK moron who is in desperate need of a cause to distract from his dismal performance back home, the US secretary who oversaw the disaster that was the Afghanistan withdrawal, and the Norwegian puppet who runs NATO, pro-Russian elements used a tank to fire at a building that is usually full of children, in the middle of a school day, located in Ukrainian-held territory. Rather than treating it as a stupid and reckless act on the part of pro-Russian elements (if they were indeed responsible), these geniuses have decided that this constitutes a "false flag" that can be used as a pretext for invasion by Russia. Maybe I don't understand NATO-speak, but one basic definition of a "false flag" is an operation where one fakes an attack against themselves. The only way this could be treated as a "false flag" is if Ukrainians were responsible. But what do I know. In any case, no child was injured during this operation. Nor were half of the soccer balls that somehow managed to remain undisturbed on the shelf despite being a few centimetres away from a one metre hole in the wall that was blasted by the shell. Anything is possible.

            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              No soccer balls were hurt in the process of creating this bullshit recreation of a military attack.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                No soccer balls were hurt in the process of creating this bullshit recreation of a military attack.
                Here is a report about the incident from an Australian "news" channel. The title is "Russia accused of 'fake attack' on Ukraine to justify invasion", yet the attack they mention is the one from the kindergarten. They don't even bother to do the most basic of research or explain how this is a fake attack orchestrated by Russia. They just hear the talking points from politicians and mindlessly repeat them, even if they make no sense whatsoever. This goes beyond poor or lazy journalism. These people are simply zombie-like adherents to western propaganda who spend more time editorialising information that has already been editorialised rather than reporting on the facts.

                Western leaders are accusing Russia of orchestrating a fake attack to justify invading Ukraine, after fighting broke out in the country's east.Both sides are...
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  They are so used to being compliant mouthpieces for the government now that they have lost all critical thought. Democracy is dead.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • kompir
                    Member
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 537

                    Democracy died a long time ago Risto, it's just now we're smelling the carcass.
                    Доста бе Вегето една, во секоја манџа се мешаш

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      Putin has instructed the Russian Armed Forces to carry out peacekeeping functions in the DPR and LPR.

                      UN SECURITY COUNCIL TO CONVENE ON UKRAINE AT 9 PM EST.
                      Last edited by Carlin; 02-21-2022, 06:33 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-...aine/100849964

                        President Vladimir Putin has ordered his Defence Ministry to dispatch Russian forces to "maintain peace" in eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions, the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, after he said Moscow would recognise their independence. The Kremlin decree, spelled out in an order signed by Mr Putin, did not specify the size of the force to be dispatched, when they would cross the border into Ukraine nor exactly what their mission would be. Mr Putin earlier signed decrees to recognise the two breakaway regions as independent statelets, defying Western warnings that such a step would be illegal and kill off long-running peace negotiations.
                        For months, the U.S. and UK were dismissive and threatening towards Russia, whereas morons from the EU wasted time with their useless and dead-end diplomacy. The leaders of Ukraine allowed themselves to be duped into adopting the wrong strategy and now they have lost more of their territory. It's 2014 all over. Once again, western meddling has led to an unfortunate turn of events in a foreign country. Once Russian troops move into the region, it will be lost to Ukraine forever.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          It seems that many in the media and politics are fawning over a speech made by Kenya's UN ambassador at an emergency session today, following Russia's recognition of the two separatist regions in eastern Ukraine. Speaking out against this development whilst addressing the UN security council, Martin Kimani made the following statement:
                          https://www.sbs.com.au/news/in-a-pow...6-b14c9b8a1b40

                          “Mr President, this situation echoes our history. Kenya and almost every African country was birthed by the ending of an empire. Our borders are not of our own drawings. They were drawn in the distant colonial metropoles of London, Paris and Lisbon with no regard for the ancient nations that they cleaved apart,” Mr Kimani said. Across Africa today, Mr Kimani said, “live our countrymen with whom we share deep historical, cultural, and linguistic bonds”. “At independence, had we chosen to pursue on the basis of ethnic, racial or religious homogeneity, we would still be waging bloody wars these many decades later. Instead, we agreed that we would settle for the borders that we inherited, but we would still pursue continental political, economic and legal integration rather than form nations that looked ever backwards into history with a dangerous nostalgia. “We chose to follow the rules of the Organisation of African Unity and the United Nations Charter, not because our borders satisfied us, but because we wanted something greater forged in peace.”
                          Sounds like a great speech, at first glance. Then read into the detail. On the one hand, he laments the fact that ancient nations within Africa were separated by artificial borders. On the other hand, he states that any revision of borders at the time of independence, in pursuit of the homogeneity that they supposedly lost due to colonialism, would have led to decades of war. Slightly contradictory and not entirely true, but much worse has been heard at the UN. He also suggests that African countries agreed to settle for the borders that they inherited. Interesting.

                          Why would he, of all people, say the above? Here's a hint. A large region in the north-east of modern Kenya is predominantly populated by Somalis. In their final years as a colonial power in East Africa, the British had planned to grant this region to Somalia, but they gave it to Kenya instead. From around the time of Kenya's independence in 1963, the Somalis in this region began to fight for unification with Somalia, from whom they received support. They were brutally repressed by the Kenyan government. I guess the borders that Kenya inherited from the hated colonial oppressor became sacrosanct overnight and entitled them to oppress Somalis in turn. Surely the conflict had nothing to do with holding on to more territory, even at the expense of absorbing a hostile element and preventing it from joining its brethren up north.

                          Why do I bother highlighting the above? First, it's irritating when a politician with an ulterior motive speaks in defence of another country and pretends to be objective, as if they have some kind of moral high ground, when they clearly don't. Second, perspectives on the demarcation of modern states are often subjective. One can use history, language, ethnicity, familial ties, sovereignty, human rights, etc. to argue the fairness of both the Ukrainian and Russian position. It would have been best for these two countries to sort out their differences between themselves. Ukraine would have remained united if it rejected the nefarious interference of outside forces and took a more gradual approach towards some of its current policies. Russia would not have felt threatened if it was dealt with courteously, particularly in relation to the overtures that Ukraine received from NATO and the EU. But, that didn't happen. There is blame to go around, no doubt, but the most culpable parties are obvious.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Joe Biden in 2022.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13pnD-88U_o

                            "Who in the lord's name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belonged to his neighbours. This is a flagrant violation of international law and demands a firm response from the international community."
                            Joe Biden in 2010.
                            https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nce-us-support

                            The US has pledged to back Kosovo’s 2008 unilateral declaration of independence regardless of a UN court verdict on its legality due today. The vice-president, Joe Biden, who met Kosovo’s prime minister in Washington yesterday, “reaffirmed the United States’ full support for an independent, democratic, whole and multi-ethnic Kosovo whose future lies firmly within European and Euro-Atlantic institutions”, according to a White House statement.
                            Respect for "international law," right. Let's go Brandon.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Putin and Lavrov make their equivalents in the West look like bumbling amateurs.
                              The President held a meeting of the Russian Federation Security Council at the Kremlin.


                              President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon, colleagues.

                              We are meeting today to discuss the current developments in Donbass.

                              I will briefly remind you how it all started and how the situation has developed even though you know this very well. But we need general background to help us make appropriate decisions.

                              So, after the 2014 coup in Ukraine, part of the population did not accept the outcome. Let me remind you that this was an anti-constitutional, blood-shedding coup that killed many innocent people. It was truly an armed coup. Nobody can argue that.

                              Some of the country’s citizens did not accept the coup. They were residents of Crimea and the people who currently live in Donbass.

                              Those people declared that they were establishing two independent republics, the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic. This was the point when the confrontation started between the Kiev officials and the people living on that territory.

                              In this context, I would like to point out that Russia initially did everything it could to make sure these disagreements could be resolved by peaceful means. However, the Kiev officials have conducted two punitive operations on those territories and, apparently, we are witnessing a third escalation.

                              All these years – I want to stress this – all these years, the people living on those territories have been literally tortured by constant shelling and blockades. As you know, the people living on those territories, close to the front line, so to speak, were in fact forced to seek shelter in their basements – where they now live with their children.

                              A peace plan was drafted during the negotiating process called the Minsk Package of Measures because, as you recall, we met in the city of Minsk. But subsequent developments show that the Kiev authorities are not planning to implement it, and they have publicly said so many times at the top state level and at the level of Foreign Minister and Security Council Secretary. Overall, everyone understands that they are not planning to do anything with regard to this Minsk Package of Measures.

                              Nevertheless, Russia has exerted efforts and still continues to make efforts to resolve all the complicated aspects and tragic developments by peaceful means, but we have what we have.

                              Our goal, the goal of today’s meeting is to listen to our colleagues and to outline future steps in this direction, considering the appeals by the leaders of the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic on recognising their sovereignty, as well as a resolution by the State Duma of the Russian Federation on the same subject. The latter document urges the President to recognise the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic.

                              At the same time, I would like to note that these different matters are, nevertheless, closely linked with matters of maintaining international security, on the European continent in particular, because the use of Ukraine as a tool for confronting this country, Russia, of course, presents a major and serious threat to us.

                              This is why we have intensified our work with our main partners in Washington and NATO over the past few months and in late 2021, so as to reach an eventual agreement on these security measures and to ensure the country’s calm and successful development under peaceful conditions. We see this as our number one objective and a top priority; instead of confrontation, we need to maintain security and ensure conditions for our development.

                              But we must, of course, understand the reality we live in. And, as I have said many times before, if Russia faces the threat of Ukraine being accepted into the North Atlantic Alliance, NATO, the threat against our country will increase because of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty that clearly states that all countries in the alliance must fight on the side of their co-member in the event of an aggression against it. But since nobody recognises the will expressed by the people of Crimea and Sevastopol, and Ukraine continues to insist that it is Ukrainian territory, there is a real threat that they will try to take back the territory they believe is theirs using military force. And they do say this in their documents, obviously. Then the entire North Atlantic Alliance will have to get involved.

                              As you know, we have been told that some NATO countries are against Ukraine becoming a member. However, despite their objections, in 2008, they signed a memorandum in Bucharest that opened the doors for Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. I have not received an answer to my question as to why they did that. But if they took one step under pressure from the United States, who can guarantee that they will not take another step under pressure? There is no guarantee.

                              There are no guarantees whatsoever because the United States is known to easily discard any agreements and documents it signs. Still, at least something must be put on paper and formulated as an international legal act. At this point, we cannot even agree on this one thing.

                              Therefore, I would like to suggest that we proceed as follows: first, I will give the floor to Mr Lavrov who is directly involved in the attempts to reach an agreement with Washington and Brussels, and with NATO, on security guarantees. Then I would like Mr Kozak to report on his findings concerning the talks on the implementation of the Minsk agreements. Then each of you will be able to speak. But at the end of the day, we must decide what we will do next and how we should proceed in view of the current situation and our assessment of these developments.

                              Mr Lavrov, please.

                              Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov: Mr President, colleagues,

                              As I reported to the President a week ago, we prepared our assessment of the proposals on the security guarantees that Russia submitted for consideration by the United States and NATO last December.

                              We received their response in late January. The assessment of this response shows that our Western colleagues are not prepared to take up our major proposals, primarily those on NATO’s eastward non-expansion. This demand was rejected with reference to the bloc’s so-called open-door policy and the freedom of each state to choose its own way of ensuring security. Neither the United States, not the North Atlantic Alliance proposed an alternative to this key provision.

                              The United States is doing everything it can to avoid the principle of indivisibility of security that we consider of fundamental importance and to which we have made many references. Deriving from it the only element that suits them – the freedom to choose alliances – they completely ignore everything else, including the key condition that reads that nobody – either in choosing alliances or regardless of them – is allowed to enhance their security at the expense of the security of others.

                              In this context, I sent our Western European colleagues that are part of NATO, EU members, plus Switzerland, detailed letters with our legal analysis of the commitments that the OSCE assumed at the top level in 1999 and 2010, as well as within the framework of Russia-NATO relations, including the 1997 Founding Act and the Rome Declaration, that the participants in the Russia-NATO meeting in Pratica di Mare approved at the top level in 2002.

                              Our second priority concerns the time we established relations with NATO, in 1997. Considering that the 1997 documents declared that Russia and NATO were no longer opponents and were supposed, in part, to develop a strategic partnership, we suggested returning to the 1997 configuration of NATO forces on the eastern flank. This argument was rejected, like the first one. Indicatively, in their response, some NATO countries immediately urged us to stop “the occupation of Crimea” and “withdraw our troops from the territories of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.”

                              In general, these documents expressed support for the Minsk Package of Measures, but this support was absolutely “sterile.” It did not evince any readiness to compel Kiev to implement the provisions of this most important document.

                              In response to our other demands, including the need to rule out the deployment of arms systems that threaten us near our borders, the Americans expressed the desire to start discussing land-based medium- and short-range missiles. This issue emerged after the United States unilaterally walked out of the relevant treaty with the Russian Federation and ignored, Mr President, your initiatives of two years ago. At that time, you suggested replacing the treaty with at least a declaration on a mutual moratorium on deploying these systems with the relevant verification measures.

                              In the proposals we have received, the United States and NATO are also suggesting efforts in certain aspects of reducing military risks and on increasing transparency and predictability. These ideas are very close to the proposals we have repeatedly presented to both the Americans and to NATO. However, these issues were removed, separated from the context of the package agreement on security guarantees.

                              As for bilateral steps, the United States suggests regulating flights of strategic bombers, completing the work on measures to prevent incidents at sea and in the airspace over the sea. It is paying special attention to the transparency of surprise inspections, the resumption of contacts between the militaries, the creation of a civilian hotline, and a discussion of mechanisms to prevent dangerous military incidents.

                              Overall, our general impression is that our colleagues are trying to separate, as it were, Russia’s proposals, to single out from them some secondary, albeit important for us, points that can help maintain the dialogue and risk reduction but that will not affect the vital interests of the US and its allies in their unlimited expansion of NATO, and that will not limit their freedom to define the configuration of forces in the NATO space and around it.

                              That said, and this is particularly important in the context of the issue that the President outlined today, the beginning of a dialogue on any issue is contingent on our preliminary steps to deescalate tensions around Ukraine.

                              In evaluating these responses, we can say that we see some progress. These openings are small but they do exist. The consistency and principled approach that we have been displaying in promoting our initiatives since last December have, of course, shaken the United States and its allies and have compelled them to start working on many Russian proposals on the reduction of military tensions and arms control, which they ignored before.

                              As I reported to you, Mr President, in this context we believe it is necessary to continue this work. We responded in detail, in the spirit I described, to the documents from Washington and Brussels, but we have sent our response only to the United States for now, partly, primarily because we see NATO’s role as ancillary since they would determine their steps mainly, maybe even exclusively based on Washington’s policies.

                              By the way, at the recent Munich Security Conference, every Western representative declared their absolute commitment to a unified approach. That unified approach was developed by the United States, so Munich has simply confirmed that we need to negotiate with Washington. This is what we are doing now, sending the response that you approved to the American document.

                              We believe we have clearly emphasised the most important part – that our proposals are not an a la carte menu to choose from, but they are not an ultimatum either. They actually stem from the absolutely obvious point that the global situation can only be resolved through a comprehensive approach at this stage. You, Mr President, have stressed that the Ukrainian crisis also largely depends on how relations develop between the Russian Federation and the West, led by the United States, so in our response, we underscored the integrity of the original Russian initiative.

                              We are also ready to discuss the matters that the Americans have recalled, including taking into account our previous proposals. But again, we will do this solely as part of addressing our main concerns: stopping NATO's eastward expansion and considering the configuration of NATO's presence on the European continent, primarily in Central and Eastern Europe, in line with the previous Russia–NATO agreements.

                              Naturally, our call is not a call but rather a demand, by and large, to explain why the assurances signed at the highest level that no one is to strengthen their security at the expense of others are now being ignored, and more than that, our colleagues from the respective countries are even refusing to explain what they had in mind when their leaders signed the relevant documents, and why now, regardless of what they had in mind, they are not going to fulfill their obligations.

                              Following your instruction, Mr President, we have sent these documents to Washington. A couple of days later, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken called me to say he had read our document and was ready to meet to discuss it, convey the American reaction and possibly ask some additional questions. With your consent, the meeting has been scheduled for later this week, February 24, in Geneva. We will be guided by the approach that you have approved, the one you defend during the meetings with your colleagues, and which we will certainly promote at the Foreign Ministry level.

                              Vladimir Putin: I am talking to my colleagues about this in fact, and my American colleague has assured me that they are not going to admit Ukraine tomorrow; moreover, even a moratorium is possible. But they also believe that Ukraine is not ready yet, so my answer was simple: “We do not see this as a concession to us; it is just the implementation of your plans. You believe you need to wait and prepare Ukraine for joining NATO. A moratorium, but not a moratorium for us; you are announcing this moratorium for yourself. So where is the step towards us, to meet us halfway? So far, we have not seen this.”

                              I spoke twice to the President of France yesterday; actually, we spoke until 2 am this morning, so you could say we talked today. He insists that the US position has undergone some changes. But regrettably, he was unable to answer the question of what those changes are.

                              I think first we need to see what these changes are, if they exist at all, because your colleagues, to the contrary, publicly claimed as late as yesterday that there were no changes in the principal issues of expansion, of accepting new countries into NATO, including Ukraine. Do I understand it correctly?

                              Sergey Lavrov: Yes, Mr President, despite the multiplying publications of classified documents – and in the Western media at that – that were discussed by our Western colleagues in the early 90s both among themselves and with us; and even though they clearly indicated that even the West has no intention of expanding NATO to the east, confirming that in talks in a narrow circle; regardless of that, Mr Stoltenberg, the current Secretary General of the North Atlantic Alliance, is still rejecting obvious facts that have been declassified by a British archive and published by Spiegel magazine.

                              Despite all that, they are adamant in not weakening their “open door” policy, even though you have explained several times that such a policy does not actually exist. There is the possibility under the Washington Treaty of proposing, with unanimous consent from the NATO countries, that a given country join the alliance under two conditions: if it meets the membership qualifications, and secondly, and most importantly, if that country can add a security dimension to the North Atlantic Alliance. We know, of course, that the second critical criteria has long been ignored by NATO.

                              As to what new ideas the Americans and their allies can offer, we presume that, as you said to President Macron, we first have to understand what the Americans mean. Because our French colleagues tell us that they have an understanding of what Washington can speak to us about. As you agreed with President Macron yesterday, I will have a telephone conversation with the French Foreign Minister today. When we were scheduling the call, I asked the French Foreign Ministry to make sure that he clarifies, even if just a little, what the Americans are ready to discuss with us as they hinted to the French.

                              Vladimir Putin: I see, thank you.

                              Take your seat, please, Thank you.

                              Now, Mr Kozak will report – as I requested – on any developments on the Minsk settlement track, let us call it that. And after that, I would ask the other Security Council members to speak out starting with the real situation, which is now unfolding in the Donetsk People’s Republic.

                              In comparison, Biden says something like ... what was it?
                              Trumpisanmmakesumthin
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-human-rights/

                                The United States has informed the United Nations it has credible information showing that Moscow is compiling lists of Ukrainians “to be killed or sent to camps following a military occupation,” according to a letter to the U.N. human rights chief obtained by The Washington Post on Sunday night.....

                                The letter, written by Bathsheba Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and other international organizations in Geneva, said, “I would like to bring to your attention disturbing information recently obtained by the United States that indicates that human rights violations and abuses in the aftermath of a further invasion are being planned.”.....

                                Crocker says the Russian military’s targets would include Russian and Belarusian dissidents in exile in Ukraine, journalists and anti-corruption activists, and “vulnerable populations such as religious and ethnic minorities and LGBTQI+ persons.”.....
                                So, Putin has created a hitlist of military targets and a primary objective of Russian troops in Ukraine will be to seek out gays, lesbians and trans people for assassination or prison camps. At what point does this type of stupidity masquerading as "intelligence" transition from being utterly pathetic to simply comical? Perhaps we're already there.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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