Kalash / Hunza tribes & the Burushaski Language

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  • Constellation
    Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 217

    This is a significant study, as it demonstrates with very high probability that today's Macedonians descend from the ancient Macedonians, and that the Macedonians in Alexander's army are genetically related to today's Macedonians.

    From what I have read so far, it appears that this population speaks a language which may have been spoken by the ancient Macedonians, and it is similar to today's Macedonian language?

    Is this correct?

    Any thoughts?

    Comment

    • iceman
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 132

      Pakistan's Hunza: We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek



      Pakistan's Hunza: We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.
      11 January, 19:09
      Pakistan's Hunza: We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.
      We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.

      Interview by Zoran Coseski with Mr- Safder Karim a Hunza student at the Sydney University
      (photo Facebook, published on Mr Coseski Fb page)

      Mr- Safder Karim
      Where are the Hunza and Kalash people from and where do they live?

      The people of Hunza and Kalash are the ancestors of Alexander the Great . The great Alexander was the king of Macedonia. So logically we migrated from Macedonia to Hunza and we are the generation of Alexander 's army who never returned to Macedonia.

      What is your view about the Greek cultural centres being opened in the Hunza and Kalash regions?

      There are no Greek cultural centers opened in Hunza Amit in Kalash and we won't let anyone to open any centres of their culture if they are not Macedonian . We are proud to be Macedonian and we are not Greek.


      Is your heritage Greek or Macedonian?

      I m totally confused why Greeks think that we are Greeks . Alexander was Macedonian so to clarify everything, our ancestors were Macedonians not Greeks. The Greeks have tried very hard to make us Greek but they won't get us to become Greek. We belong to the Macedonian culture and to Macedonia . We never mix with any other culture .In the ancient world there was no country called Greece, there was a Macedonian kingdom with a king and a city states around Athens.

      Tell us about your Language?

      Our language is very similar many words are similar. we speak Burushaki language. This language is only spoken by the people of Alexanders descendants in today's Pakistan .

      What message do you have for the Macedonian people around the world?


      There are many things I would love to tell the Macedonian community firstly we are Brothers and the children of one father, our culture is the same our language is the same our music is also the same . We can't change our Macedonian identity, no one can change their identity . I would say that there must be opportunities for the people of Hunza and the people of Macedonia to take steps to build relationships between Hunza and Macedonia because there are many other other cultures like the Greeks who trying to show that we are Greeks . There should be a proper set up for the students of Hunza to go to Macedonia and get an education and also learn the Macedonian language . When they get back to Hunza they can teach the Macedonian language .There are many things to build relationship between Hunza and Macedonia and we must take step now. We love our brothers and we are proud to be descendents of the great KING ALEXANDER of Makedon . So time to show unity time to be one its time to find opportunities to make the boundaries closer to each other .
      At the end I would Say long live Hunza long live Macedonia and long live our brotherhood

      Comment

      • Volokin
        Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 278

        Good to hear. The Macedonian government should do more to set up relations with the Hunza people. Macedonian classes in schools would be a great idea.

        Comment

        • Thorvald
          Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 145

          Aren't these people not under the threat of Islamization?
          https://germanictribes.proboards.com/
          European preservation

          Comment

          • Nikolaj
            Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 389

            I find it interesting that their language isn't linked to any language family as it is a language isolate in this period of time. Isn't this a gateway to the unknown languages of the ancient period?

            Comment

            • Philosopher
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1003

              Tell us about your Language?

              Our language is very similar many words are similar. we speak Burushaki language. This language is only spoken by the people of Alexanders descendants in today's Pakistan.
              What does he mean by "our language is very similar many words are similar"? Does he mean with Macedonian?

              If so, where is the evidence for this?

              Burushaski ends in ski.

              Anyone have more information?

              Comment

              • Macedonian_Nationalist
                Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 407

                Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                What does he mean by "our language is very similar many words are similar"? Does he mean with Macedonian?

                If so, where is the evidence for this?

                Burushaski ends in ski.

                Anyone have more information?
                I remember watching a doco on them and some Macedonian journalist went there and there was actually a number of words which were very very similar to modern Macedonian

                From memory they called Raka (hand) Raka aswell but I've forgotten the rest

                Comment

                • Nikolaj
                  Member
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 389

                  Other names for the language are Biltum, Khajuna, Kunjut, Brushaski, Burucaki, Burucaski, Burushaki, Burushki,[7] Brugaski, Brushas, Werchikwar and Miśa:ski.

                  I was wondering about that too, according to wikipedia:

                  No generally accepted connection has been demonstrated between Burushaski and any other language or language family. Several attempts have been made to establish a genealogical relationship between Burushaski and the Caucasic languages,[9] with the Yeniseian languages in a family called Karasuk,[10] as a non-Indo-Iranian Indo-European language,[11][12] or to include Burushaski in the Dené–Caucasian proposal, which includes both Caucasic and Yeniseian.[13][14] None of these efforts has been accepted by scholarly consensus. In 2008 Edward Vajda attempted to demonstrate[15] Merritt Ruhlen's proposal[16] that Yeniseian was most closely related to Na-Dene in a Dené–Yeniseian family, but the evidence adduced has not been extended to Burushaski.The Indo-Europeanist Eric P. Hamp has proposed a correlation between Burushaski and Indo-Hittite.[17]Ilija Casule proposed Phrygian[18]

                  Following Berger (1956), the American Heritage dictionaries suggested that the word *abel ‘apple’, the only name for a fruit (tree) reconstructed for Proto-Indo-European, may have been borrowed from a language ancestral to Burushaski. (Today "apple" and "apple tree" are báalt in Burushaski.)

                  Comment

                  • Nikolaj
                    Member
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 389

                    Originally posted by Macedonian_Nationalist View Post
                    I remember watching a doco on them and some Macedonian journalist went there and there was actually a number of words which were very very similar to modern Macedonian

                    From memory they called Raka (hand) Raka aswell but I've forgotten the rest
                    Do you have a link to that video MN? I'm sure there is a great possible connection, especially if we go into agricultural terminology.

                    Does anyone have a link to that article where they tried to find some genetic connection with the Greeks but didn't find one, however there was some genetic connection in Macedonia?

                    Comment

                    • Dejan
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 589

                      I have this doco on DVD. Will look for it and see if I can share. I'm sure it was on youtube not long ago. Title was "To the end of the earth" or something along those lines
                      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                      Comment

                      • Volokin
                        Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 278

                        This is a snippet from the full doco:

                        Going from Macedonia,10 000 miles away following the sun,and to come in Macedonia, again!In the mountains of Hindu Kush,in Hunza valley, Pakistan,live Hunza ...


                        (not letting me embed for some reason)

                        And here you can find the full doco in 4 parts:

                        Macedonia for Macedonians FOREVER...!


                        I found it fascinating that the Hunza people are still proud to say they are of Macedonian origin some two thousand years later. This is a great story and I'd like to learn more about these people.

                        The main thing here is that they feel Macedonian and know the history behind their existence, and that's important because it strengthens the argument that they are the true descendants of Alexander's army.

                        Comment

                        • Nikolaj
                          Member
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 389

                          Much appreciated. Also,

                          I googled a list of common words they use (I assume this is the language they referred to) and here it is:



                          Hand = Raka (Macedonian) = Ren (Burushaski)

                          I do not see this to be as similar as the video claimed. Even though it was something I would have disagreed with instantly knowing that languages develop and people are influenced, borrow words etc. However, I did notice there are similar words that we have in Macedonian but are used for different things. This is something I noticed when analysing the difference between Russian and Macedonian in the past.

                          What I would take into consideration is that there are professional and unprofessional ways of saying words e.g. in Macedonian 'fala' and 'blagodaram' for saying thank you. This is something they may have noticed while physically being there which is different to a formal systematic script of words.

                          Comment

                          • DedoAleko
                            Member
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 969

                            Ilija Casule from the Department of Linguistics, Macquarie University, Sydney published a book on that matter.
                            I couldn't find online copies of his books:"Basic Burushaski Etymologies: The Indo-European and Paleo-Balkanic Affinities of Burushaski" and "Burushaski as an Indo-European "Kentum" Language: Reflexes of the Indo-European Gutturals in Burushaski", but I found a book on the same subject,where he contributed in.
                            You can find the book on books.google and it is called:
                            Trans-Himalayan Linguistics: Historical and Descriptive Linguistics of the ...
                            edited by Thomas Owen-Smith, Nathan Hill


                            This is the documentary Marina visits the Kaleshi & Hunzi - to the end of the world

                            Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" M...

                            Comment

                            • Poligiros
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2014
                              • 121

                              Originally posted by iceman View Post
                              http://www.shilomagazine.com.au/we-a...-and-not-greek

                              Pakistan's Hunza: We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.
                              11 January, 19:09
                              Pakistan's Hunza: We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.
                              We are proud to be Macedonians and we are not Greek.

                              At the end I would Say long live Hunza long live Macedonia and long live our brotherhood
                              I am quite disappointed that you would use the unsubstantiated opinion of one person from the Hunza tribe to try to establish a political point?



                              Theories of Greek heritage

                              Burusho legend maintains that they descend from the village of Baltir, which had been founded by a soldier left behind from the army of Alexander the Great—a legend common to much of northern Pakistan.[12] However, genetic evidence supports only a very small, 2% Greek genetic component among the Pashtun ethnic group of Pakistan and Afghanistan,[13] not the Burusho.[14]

                              The Hunza and Macedonia
                              In 2008 the Macedonian Institute for Strategic Researches "16.9" organized a visit by Hunza Prince Ghazanfar Ali Khan and Princess Rani Atiqa as descendants of the Alexandran army.[15] The Hunza delegation was welcomed at the Skopje Airport by the country's prime minister Nikola Gruevski, the head of the Macedonian Orthodox Church Archbishop Stephen and the then-mayor of Skopje Trifun Kostovski. Academics dismiss the idea as pseudoscience and doubts exist that party leaders actually believe the claims either.[/B][16]

                              LOL!!! the accuracy of the interview content is rather misleading and erroneous, based on the above?

                              have a nice day!

                              Comment

                              • Nikolaj
                                Member
                                • Aug 2014
                                • 389

                                Originally posted by Poligiros View Post
                                I am quite disappointed that you would use the unsubstantiated opinion of one person from the Hunza tribe to try to establish a political point?



                                Theories of Greek heritage

                                Burusho legend maintains that they descend from the village of Baltir, which had been founded by a soldier left behind from the army of Alexander the Great—a legend common to much of northern Pakistan.[12] However, genetic evidence supports only a very small, 2% Greek genetic component among the Pashtun ethnic group of Pakistan and Afghanistan,[13] not the Burusho.[14]

                                The Hunza and Macedonia
                                In 2008 the Macedonian Institute for Strategic Researches "16.9" organized a visit by Hunza Prince Ghazanfar Ali Khan and Princess Rani Atiqa as descendants of the Alexandran army.[15] The Hunza delegation was welcomed at the Skopje Airport by the country's prime minister Nikola Gruevski, the head of the Macedonian Orthodox Church Archbishop Stephen and the then-mayor of Skopje Trifun Kostovski. Academics dismiss the idea as pseudoscience and doubts exist that party leaders actually believe the claims either.[/B][16]

                                LOL!!! the accuracy of the interview content is rather misleading and erroneous, based on the above?

                                have a nice day!
                                This would be dismissed instantly because of the status quo regarding the Slavic migration theory. Have you read about the Slavic migration theory on this forum? Not to mention they tried to find a Greek genetic lineage of these people in Greece but could not, however they did notice a connection within Macedonia. I will get you this article tonight.

                                If these people want to be acknowledged to be the descendants of Alexanders army, going with either party both Greek or Macedonian would allow this to happen within modern day politics.

                                Comment

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