Russia, Ukraine and the West

[Soldier of Macedon]

Looks like the next phase of pro-Russian forces is beginning to take shape and reveal itself.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/prorussi...407-zqrli.html

Pro-Russian protesters seize state buildings in Ukraine, April 7, 2014

Donetsk: Ukraine accused Russia's President Vladimir Putin of orchestrating the seizure of state buildings in two eastern Ukrainian cities by pro-Russia protesters on Sunday, in a further escalation of tension between Kiev and Moscow. The protesters seized the regional government building in the industrial hub of Donetsk and security service offices in nearby Luhansk, waving Russian flags and demanding a Crimea-style referendum on joining Russia.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said police would restore order in both cities without recourse to violence. He accused Ukraine's ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, whose political base was in Donetsk, of conspiring with Putin to fuel tensions. "Putin and Yanukovych ordered and paid for the latest wave of separatist disorder in the east of the country. The people who have gathered are not many but they are very aggressive," Mr Avakov said in a statement on his Facebook page. "The situation will come back under control without bloodshed. That is the order to law enforcement officers, it's true. But the truth is that no one will peacefully tolerate the lawlessness of provocateurs," he said. Ukraine's Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov called an emergency meeting of security chiefs in Kiev and took personal control of the situation, the parliamentary press service said.

Mainly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine has seen a sharp rise in tensions since Mr Yanukovych's ouster in February and the installation of a pro-European government in Kiev. Branding the new Kiev government illegitimate, Russia has annexed Ukraine's Crimea region citing threats to its Russian-speaking majority, a move that has sparked the biggest standoff between Moscow and the West since the end of the Cold War. More than 1000 people protested in Donetsk on Sunday before breaking into the regional administration building where they hung a Russian flag from a second floor balcony, a Reuters witness said. Protesters outside cheered and chanted "Russia!".

In the Luhansk protest, Ukrainian television said three people were injured. Police could not confirm the report. Talking to the crowd over a loudspeaker, protest leaders in Donetsk said they wanted regional lawmakers to convene an emergency meeting to discuss a vote on joining Russia like the one in Ukraine's Crimea region that led to its annexation. "Deputies of the regional council should convene before midnight and take the decision to carry out a referendum," said one of the protest leaders without identifying himself.

A local internet portal streamed footage from the seized building, showing people freely entering and exiting. Soviet-era music was being played over loud speakers outside. The building houses the offices of regional governor Serhiy Taruta, a steel baron recently appointed by Kiev to rule a region with close economic and historic ties to Russia. "Around 1000 people took part [in the storming of the building], mostly young people with their faces covered," said Ihor Dyomin, a spokesman for Donetsk local police. "Around 100 people are now inside the building and are barricading the building," he added.

In Luhansk, Reuters television showed images of hundreds of people outside the state security services building in Luhansk and a policeman in riot armour being carried away on a stretcher. Ukrainian television said the Luhansk protesters were demanding the release of people detained by security services in recent days as well as a referendum on joining Russia. "We don't want to join the EU, we don't want to join NATO. We want our children to live in peace," an unnamed woman told Ukraine's Channel Five in Luhansk.

Ukraine's state security services said on Saturday they had detained 15 people in Luhansk suspected of planning to overthrow the authorities and had confiscated hundreds of rifles, grenades and petrol bombs. Pro-Russian demonstrators have held rallies in several eastern Ukrainian cities in recent weeks, not far from the border with Russia, where Moscow has assembled tens of thousands of troops.

[George S.]

only a couple days ago I heard putin say that he is withdrawing Russian forces only to find more forces are sent in.He isn't taking any chances.

[Carlin]

Stephen Cohen on Russia Ukraine Crisis "We are Well Into a Cold War"

Stephen Cohen on Russia Ukraine Crisis "We are Well Into a Cold War" - YouTube

Target: Ukraine -- How foreign intervention is tearing the country apart

Target: Ukraine -- How foreign intervention is tearing the country apart - YouTube

[Soldier of Macedon]

Things seem to be going from bad to worse for Ukraine.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-s...505-zr50j.html

Police station attack in Odessa raises stakes in Ukraine crisis May 6, 2014 - 12:19AM

Donetsk: Divisions have deepened in Ukraine's third-largest city as pro-Russian militants attacked a police station in Odessa and freed 67 of their allies, while pro-Ukrainian activists gathered with sticks and clubs and vowed to defend the southern city from the kind of takeovers that have occurred in the east of the country. The spread of the violence to Odessa has raised the stakes dramatically in the Ukraine crisis, bringing the conflict between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian forces to the country's most important port.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke by telephone at the weekend, the Kremlin said. Mr Putin told Dr Merkel that he wanted a direct dialogue between Ukraine's acting government in Kiev and "representatives of the south-eastern regions of the country". In a potentially significant diplomatic move, the Kremlin also said that the head of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Didier Burkhalter, would visit Moscow on Wednesday. The Kremlin has said it would like the OSCE to head negotiations.

Sunday's mayhem occurred two days after 46 people died in clashes and a fire in the city. The fact that most of those victims were pro-Russian activists has given their supporters a new, raw sense of grievance. Hundreds of pro-Russian militants took part in the attack on the police station on Sunday, aimed at releasing people arrested after Friday's fighting, according to witnesses and reporters on the scene. Police gave in and released the prisoners, sparking cheers and chants of "Odessa is a Russian town", witnesses said.

Odessa lies between the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia annexed in March, and the pro-Russian separatist region of Transnistria in Moldova, where Russia has a peacekeeping force. Concerns are mounting that Russia aims to take effective control of a huge swath of eastern and southern Ukraine, right up to Transnistria. While Odessa has a sizable ethnic Russian minority - around 30 per cent of the population - polls have found that most residents want to remain part of Ukraine.

Ukraine's interim prime minister, visiting Odessa, accused Russia of fomenting the unrest two days earlier. Calling it a "tragedy for all Ukraine", Arseniy Yatsenyuk also blamed a corrupt police force for failing to prevent the violence. He tasked prosecutors with "finding all instigators, all organisers and all those that under Russian leadership began a deadly attack on Ukraine and Odessa". There were signs that backers of the pro-Western government in Kiev were not going to give up control of their city without a fight. Dozens gathered on a main street carrying their own shields and clubs.

"We are never going to lose our city of Odessa to any lovers of the Russian tricolour flag," local leader Zoya Kozanzhy said. "Those who don't like Ukraine can go to Russia." She said that pro-Ukrainian activists in Luhansk, Donetsk and other cities under separatist control "should organise their own movements and win the war". "Both sides of this conflict have victims now, so it will take us many years before we go back to a peaceful life," she said. Ukrainian troops have surrounded Slaviansk and Kramatorsk, two rebel-held cities in the east, near the Russian border. But the soldiers appeared to hold back from a declared campaign to recapture the towns.

In Donetsk, another pro-Russian stronghold, at least 1000 people marched through town chanting "Odessa will not be forgiven". "There is no Ukraine; it was a stillborn child," said one woman in her 50s as a Ukrainian flag was burned. Mr Yatsenyuk dismissed Russian accusations that his government was provoking bloodshed in the east with its military offensive. "The process of dialogue had begun, only it was drowned out by the sound of shooting from automatic rifles of Russian production," he said.

[makedonche]

Are the Macedonians doing anything to help? Lest we forget who came to our aid during the 2001 conflict!

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by makedonche

Are the Macedonians doing anything to help? Lest we forget who came to our aid during the 2001 conflict!

What did they actually do? They were Macedonia's largest military supplier. We know that for sure. What else? Sounds like they were simply adding fries with the order.

[Big Bad Sven]

Originally Posted by makedonche

Are the Macedonians doing anything to help? Lest we forget who came to our aid during the 2001 conflict!

Not picking sides but the Ukranian government that sent military to macedonia had 'pro-russian' leaders at the time.

Macedonia cant defend itself so i doubt it could help in such a important conflict. In saying that i think if macedonia could involve itself in this it would be best to just stay out and be neutral

[George S.]

Look guys the ukraine people have had enough bs from russia.Do you realise how enslaved they were,the russians took their time deciding on things a huge bureaucracy.If you needed anything done may god help you.THe ukraine is going to be fucked up again & again from the russian rulers,Its all dicatatorial ,the people are going to suffer for it.Give freedom to the ukraine no more bullshit from russia.If you take away the ukraine & the federation you got just moscow.All these people are not Russian as such they are mostly different people FORCED to be part of russia& are enslaved.How is it better for them to be under russia.???

[Pavle Pijanica]

Better to be enslaved by the Russians then by the Albanians don't you think George?

[George S.]

its like comparing chalk & cheese or apples with oranges.The russians are more dictatorial and they want their pound of flesh.Do you realise that the eu i think is going to invite ukraine to join or how about nato??Russia doesn't want to give the freedom.What kind of freedom price.What do people think will a war solve everything??At least the'll try.The russians aren't scared of sanctions.What can the us do to stop the russians.