Russia, Ukraine and the West

[Carlin]

Ukraine Relies on Intelligence from US for HIMARS Rocket Strikes
Ukrainian officials tell WaPo they almost never launch HIMARS rounds without using coordinates provided by US military personnel

https://news.antiwar.com/2023/02/09/...ocket-strikes/

Ukraine Prepared to Strike Crimea With British Missiles
The UK is in discussions with Ukraine on providing longer-range missiles

https://news.antiwar.com/2023/02/09/...tish-missiles/

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Seems Russia has launched its much-awaited offensive in the Donbass. The next week or so will show whether it's going to have any success, though I wouldn't hold your breath. Prigozhin estimates that it would take between 1.5 to 2 years just for Russia to capture the rest of the Donbass (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-...ears/101962380). That basically means never.

There was much debate on social media about the Prigozhin comment...personally I would take Putin's comments more seriously and he came out the other day saying that he wants everything in the east finished by the end of March.

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

NATO supplies of Tanks, APCs, IFVs, howitzers, and long-range missiles are due over the next few months. I have little doubt NATO war planes will arrive at the same time. Ukraine will have a complete package for advanced combined arms warfare (something the Russians have never managed to understand in theory or practice even though it's the basis of modern warfare since WWII) for a counter offensive once the Russians have run out of steam in their self-created meat grinder of WWI artillery barrage followed by pointless human infantry waves.

Your mind works in mysterious ways...Do you realise that with the latest promises and donations of western military aid to Ukraine that the Russians have now destroyed the second iteration of the Ukrainian military and are now probably moving onto AFU V3.0...and where do you think Ukraine is going to find the manpower to operate all of these new systems or the logistical infrastructure to maintain and resupply such disparate systems?

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

For anyone that is interested in a good article about the state of the Russian armed forces (which really are reflective of the state of Russia and its society), the below is a really good one. Might have a paywall, but if you don't read the NY Times regularly, I think you're entitled to four free articles:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...s-ukraine.html

Yeah, like the NY Times isn't full of shit...yep the hopeless state of Russia's armed forces...we've heard it all before...they ran out of missiles in March 2022...

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

If only they didn't defer to USA already. Reminds me of Macedonia (except Macedonia has nothing to offer in comparison to Ukraine).

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1...606628865?s=20

What do you mean by "deferring". That's pretty vague.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

The thing I oppose is not ones right to self determination or the pursuit of a better life (in all of its shapes and colours, or whatever that means to the individual)...

Then why do you support the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

the thing I greatly oppose is the way Ukrainians have been used to do the dirty work of the US...

What dirty work? Can you actually be specific for once?

what I oppose is the relentless march of NATO further east and on the doorstep of a nuclear armed nation...

Same bagpipe. NATO hasn't marched anywhere. East European countries willingly joined NATO because they have been subjugated by Russia for over 100 years and saw their security and sovereignty (not perfectly) but much better protected as part of the NATO alliance.

I oppose the constant poking and prodding by the US and its lackey allies that could lead to a global nuclear conflict, one that will lead to the destruction of everything on this planet

Russia invaded Ukraine and somehow that is America's fault. This is nothing more than incoherent anti-American, anti-Western diatribe. All of this has already been covered in previous posts and you've don't nothing more that make vague suggestions of American/Western "poking" and "prodding".

If Ukraine had patriotic leaders serving the best interests of their people, they probably have/had every opportunity to achieve their wishes.

Doesn't really seem like you know much about the Ukrainians peoples' wishes. Tens of Millions of them are voluntarily fighting and/or working against the Russians in an existential war as we type and you're saying they're wrong and Russia is right.

Ukraine is/was a country rich in natural resources and industrial capacity...all it needs is honest politicians that put the nation and people ahead of everything else...instead it is the most corrupt shithole in Europe.

I agree re needing honest politicians (potentially a non-existant species) but its highly debatable as to which country deserves the title of Europe's most corrupt shithole. I still think Macedonia is giving it a good run.

So don't give me this nonsense that the Ukrainian people are having their rights to freedom taken away from them by the 'big bad russians'...

Russia literally invaded Ukraine. In 2014 and again last year. Its literally Russia that is violently attempting to destroy Ukrainian national sovereignty. Literally right now.

they're doing it to themselves under the pretence of seeking freedom,

What on earth does that even mean????

all the Ukrainian leadership want is the freedom to act with impunity and to fleece the state, all under the impotent and uncaring gaze of that beacon of hope and freedom, the USA.

No doubt, but that's not America's fault. It's up to Ukrainians to sort out corruption in their own country, just like it's up to Macedonians to sort out corruption in Macedonia or Australians to sort out corruption in Australia. Setting the blame on a foreign country for the corrupt, nepotistic and administratively incompetent mentality of the domestic population that has been cultivated over centuries through despotic ideologies and philosophies is completely vacuous and a shallow sociological understanding of what corruption is and how it can be combatted.

Sort of reminds me about America's role in a little corner of the Balkans as well...

I think you forget the totality of America's role in that little corner and the overwhelming blame that lies with the mentality of the people of that little corner...which you seem to be absorbing as part of your own outlook. You can't pin blame for your own incompetence on someone else.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

There was much debate on social media about the Prigozhin comment...personally I would take Putin's comments more seriously and he came out the other day saying that he wants everything in the east finished by the end of March.

What Putin wants and what the Russian armed forces can realistically accomplish are clearly two different things. Documents captured from retreating Russians last year demonstrate that Putin wanted the total collapse of Ukraine within weeks, if not days.

Your mind works in mysterious ways...

Its only mysterious to those who fail to understand logic and/or the actual capabilities (as opposed to the myth) of the Russian armed forces.

Do you realise that with the latest promises and donations of western military aid to Ukraine that the Russians have now destroyed the second iteration of the Ukrainian military and are now probably moving onto AFU V3.0...and where do you think Ukraine is going to find the manpower to operate all of these new systems or the logistical infrastructure to maintain and resupply such disparate systems?

Got any actual evidence other than the conjecture spread around by RT or the world socialist web site? Ukraine has never been given the type of equipment now being promised by NATO (heavy and light tanks, new long-range missiles). Further, Ukraine losing equipment in battle does not equate to the destruction of its entire armed forces. We could also make the same statement, and more, about Russia getting supplies from Iran and North Korea - but it's not the case.

If Ukraine has no manpower left, then who exactly led the counter offensives that liberated up to five oblasts over the past few months? Who has been repelling Russian attacks since then and who is repelling the latest Russian offensive? Maybe the Russians are more incompetent that even I imagined and are tripping over themselves?

Yeah, like the NY Times isn't full of shit...yep the hopeless state of Russia's armed forces...we've heard it all before...they ran out of missiles in March 2022...

Still with the missiles (which by the way, Russia can only manage to fire sporadically and at best only about 100 at a time. Yes, this is a ridiculously pathetic effort.) The NY times has hit the nail on the head with this peice.

[Carlin]

Wagner captures Krasnaya Gora.

Telegram channels associated with PMCs report that no one from the Krasnaya Gora garrison of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was left alive.

[Carlin]

Slavyangrad Telegram channel:


American media coverage of the conflict in Ukraine is not accurate, according to American journalist Seymour Hersh.

"The coverage of the conflict in Ukraine by leading American media, for example, The New York Times and The Washington Post, does not correspond to what is really happening," investigative journalist Hersh said on the air of the War Nerd podcast.

Hersh did not specify what he meant, but when asked by the host if his words meant that the conflict is not developing as well for Kiev as the American media are trying to portray, he answered in the affirmative.

"Russia has more than 350,000 regular servicemen who are not even involved in the conflict," he said.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Carlin

Hersh did not specify what he meant

Compelling stuff. As long as he gave a wink and a nod we can rest assured he knows stuff...

Interview with two former Wagner Group fighters:

The two fighters told of hideous losses in “first wave” assaults reminiscent of World War I charges.

“There were 90 of us. Sixty died in that first assault, killed by mortar fire. A handful remained wounded,” said one, recalling his first assault near the village of Bilohorivka. “If one group is unsuccessful, another is sent right away. If the second one is unsuccessful, they send another group.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/12/e...ntl/index.html

The Russians have never moved on from WWI tactics, but at least during the first world war a "wave" of men consisted of tens of thousands. Now it seems it consists of about 90. Maybe if they tried sending in a few more at a time they'd have a better chance of overwhelming Ukrainian defences...but it's not what you know, it's who you know that puts you in charge.

“We couldn’t retreat without orders because if we don’t comply with the order, we will be killed,” said one of the prisoners...“Our commander was told that if anyone gets cold feet, he would have to be eliminated. And if we failed to eliminate him, we would be eliminated for failing to eliminate him.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/12/e...ntl/index.html

This has been standard practice since Trotsky first instituted it during the Russian Revolution. They seem to think they have an infinite supply of men (fit for military service and combat ready). They don't.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

What do you mean by "deferring". That's pretty vague.

It’s not terribly vague when read in conjunction with the twitter link I provided. Didn’t you see it? The one where the USA corporations will effectively take over the country. Let’s not kid ourselves, they already have. I’m going to assume you will deny the Biden/Kolomoiski/Burisma relationship in among all of this as well. Ukraine will do precisely what factions within USA wants because it is largely owned by USA now. That is what I mean about “deferring”.

Did you see the wink and nod from the demented Biden about Nordstream? USA did that and has condemned Europe to a brand new kind of subservience. Masterful stuff. Ukraine is just a pawn it USA strategy. Tell me about self-determination again.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Documents captured from retreating Russians last year demonstrate that Putin wanted the total collapse of Ukraine within weeks, if not days.

I never saw them. I would love to see what you are relying on as factual here. Was it a retreating Russian who was carrying an offical letter saying “kill them all”? Do you have a link?

Don’t you think Russia could have done a USA vs Serbia thing and destroyed all of Ukraine’s infrastructure within a relatively short period of time? I reckon it could have knocked out some serious infrastructure very quickly if it wanted to.