Cleopatra and the Macedonians of Egypt

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  • Thorvald
    Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 145

    #16
    Here is another aricle:

    ARCHEOLOGISTS and forensic experts believe they have identified the skeleton of Cleopatra’s younger sister, murdered more than 2,000 years ago on the orders of the Egyptian queen.

    The remains of Princess Arsinöe, put to death in 41BC on the orders of Cleopatra and her Roman lover Mark Antony to eliminate her as a rival, are the first relics of the Ptolemaic dynasty to be identified.

    The breakthrough, by an Austrian team, has provided pointers to Cleopatra’s true ethnicity. Scholars have long debated whether she was Greek or Macedonian like her ancestor the original Ptolemy, a Macedonian general who was made ruler of Egypt by Alexander the Great, or whether she was north African.

    Evidence obtained by studying the dimensions of Arsinöe’s skull shows she had some of the characteristics of white Europeans, ancient Egyptians and black Africans, indicating that Cleopatra was probably of mixed race, too. They were daughters of Ptolemy XII by different wives.

    The results vindicate the theories of Hilke Thür of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, who has long claimed that the skeleton was Arsinöe. She described the discovery of Arsinöe’s ethnicity as “a real sensation which leads to a new insight on Cleopatra’s family”.

    Fellow experts are now convinced. Günther Hölbl, an authority on the Ptolemies, said the identification of the skeleton was “a great discovery”.

    The forensic evidence was obtained by a team working under the auspices of the Austrian Archeological Institute, which is set to detail its findings at an anthropological convention in the United States later this month.

    The story of the discovery will also be the subject of a tele-vision documentary, Cleopatra: Portrait of a Killer, to be shown on BBC1 at 9pm next Monday.

    The institute’s breakthrough came about after it set out to examine Thür’s belief that an octagonal tomb in the remains of the Roman city of Ephesus contained the body of Arsinöe.

    According to Roman texts the city, in what is now Turkey, is where Arsinöe was banished after being defeated in a power struggle against Cleopatra and her then lover, Julius Caesar.

    Arsinöe was said to have been murdered after Cleopatra, now with Mark Antony following Caesar’s death, ordered the Roman general to have her younger sibling killed to prevent any future attempts on the Egyptian throne.

    The distinctive tomb was first opened in 1926 by archeologists who found a sarcophagus inside containing a skeleton. They removed the skull, which was examined and measured; but it was lost in the upheaval of the second world war.

    In the early 1990s Thür reentered the tomb and found the headless skeleton, which she believed to be of a young woman. Clues, such as the unusual octagonal shape of the tomb, which echoed that of the lighthouse of Alexandria with which Arsinöe was associated, convinced Thür the body was that of Cleopatra’s sister. Her theory was considered credible by many historians, and in an attempt to resolve the issue the Austrian Archeological Institute asked the Medical University of Vienna to appoint a specialist to examine the remains.

    Fabian Kanz, an anthropologist, was sceptical when he began this task two years ago. “We tried to exclude her from being Arsinöe,” he said. “We used all the methods we have to find anything that can say, ‘Okay, this can’t be Arsinöe because of this and this’.”

    After using carbon dating, which dated the skeleton from 200BC-20BC, Kanz, who had examined more than 500 other skeletons taken from the ruins of Ephesus, found Thür’s theory gained credibility.

    He said he was certain the bones were female and placed the age of the woman at 15-18. Although Arsinöe’s date of birth is not known, she was certainly younger than Cleopatra, who was about 27 at the time of her sister’s demise.

    The lack of any sign of illness or malnutrition also indicated a sudden death, said Kanz. Evidence of the skeleton’s north African ethnicity provided the final clue.

    Caroline Wilkinson, a forensic anthropologist, reconstructed the missing skull based on measurements taken in the 1920s. Using computer technology it was possible to create a facial impression of what Arsinöe might have looked like.

    “It has got this long head shape,” said Wilkinson. “That’s something you see quite frequently in ancient Egyptians and black Africans. It could suggest a mixture of ancestry.”


    A mixture of Ancestry doesnot make here African.
    https://germanictribes.proboards.com/
    European preservation

    Comment

    • Makedonian
      Junior Member
      • Apr 2009
      • 10

      #17
      Tomb of Anthony and Cleopatra Found in Alexandria-Egypt!

      Macedonian Bloggers,

      World TV news media, has just reported that Archaeologists from around Alexandria-Egypt, named after Alexander III, The Great, have found the tomb of the Macedonian Queen Cleopatra and her Roman lover and partner, Mark Anthony. It is believed by Ancient Historians that both Cleopatra and Anthony poisoned themselves and were buried in the ancient tomb near modern Alexandria.

      Due to the Alexandrian-Egypt current news, Australian TV showed, an Egyptian Ancient History documentary on he ancient city of Alexandria in Egypt which gave the historical background, on how it was made according to Alexander III, wishes and built by BOTH ancient Greek and Macedonian People!

      I thought I would share the above news and current affairs with you!

      Orthodox Christian Greetings From Down Under!

      Makedonija na Makedoncite! Makedonia for the Makedonians!
      FREEDOM TO QUEBEC / QUEBEC LIBRE!

      Comment

      • Makedonian
        Junior Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 10

        #18
        Tomb of Anthony and Cleopatra Found in Alexandria-Egypt!

        Macedonian Bloggers,

        World TV news media, has just reported that Archaeologists from around Alexandria-Egypt, named after Alexander III, The Great, have found the tomb of the Macedonian Queen Cleopatra and her Roman lover and partner, Mark Anthony. It is believed by Ancient Historians that both Cleopatra and Anthony poisoned themselves and were buried in the ancient tomb near modern Alexandria.

        Due to the Alexandrian-Egypt current news, Australian TV showed, an Egyptian Ancient History documentary on he ancient city of Alexandria in Egypt which gave the historical background, on how it was made according to Alexander III, wishes and built by BOTH ancient Greek and Macedonian People!

        I thought I would share the above news and current affairs with you!

        Orthodox Christian Greetings From Down Under!

        Makedonija na Makedoncite!
        Makedonia for the Makedonians!
        FREEDOM TO QUEBEC / QUEBEC LIBRE

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #19
          You know the guy from Egypt who always reveals these things.
          He wears an Indiana Jones hat.
          I just can't seem to trust the guy ... I don't know why. I simply get the feeling he would "plant" stuff just to make his version of history more complete. Like some other people we know.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • TrueMacedonian
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 3810

            #20
            On of my most favorite television shows was the HBO series Rome. My favorite character was Mark Anthony. The show always made mention of Macedonia, of course seperate from "greece"

            Here's the Makedonka Cleopatra and Mark Anthony from the show Rome;

            YouTube - Antony & Cleopatra Meet in Rome
            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #21
              Here's another clip where Antony and Cleopatra end their lives. The reason why I post this is because before Antony ends his life he mentions Alexander;

              YouTube - The Deaths of Antony & Cleopatra
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Spartan
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1037

                #22
                Great show man!
                I followed it religiously, and bought the DVD sets
                I recomend it to any history buff, as it is very accurate.
                Pity it was only 2 seasons though.

                Marc Antony is by far the best charachter, with Pullo a close second.
                I also liked Caesars Greek slave/advisor/assistant- he was pretty sharp too.

                They make many references to Macedonia in the show, but dont forget TM, one of the reasons for this is that that our region was broken up into provinces by the Romans.
                Macedonia, Epirus and Achaea.


                Also, I remember someone posted a map of the boundaries of these 3 provinces, and I found it interesting where the romans made the southern border of Macedonia. It was almost to Athens in the south!

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                  I found it interesting where the romans made the southern border of Macedonia. It was almost to Athens in the south!
                  Ummm, so it was a little smaller than it should have been then.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Spartan
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1037

                    #24
                    Its funny you say that my friend.
                    This is the whole problem in the Balkans today as I see it.
                    Every country in the region thinks its smaller than it should have been...

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #25
                      Athens is ours!
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #26
                        Nashe!! Just kidding Athens has always been a province of Sparta
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Spartan
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1037

                          #27
                          ^^^^^^^^
                          lol

                          Comment

                          • lavce pelagonski
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 1993

                            #28
                            CLEOPATRA: A Life, by Stacy Schiff

                            CLEOPATRA: A Life, by Stacy Schiff (Little, Brown, $29.99.) It’s dizzying to contemplate the ancient thicket of personalities and propaganda Schiff penetrates to reconstruct the Macedonian-Egyptian queen in all her ambition, audacity and formidable intelligence.

                            Stacy Schiff penetrates an ancient thicket of personalities and propaganda to reconstruct the Macedonian-Egyptian queen Cleopatra in all her ambition, audacity and formidable intelligence.


                            Papyri crumble away. What remains of her home is 20 feet underwater. She died before Jesus was born. Her first biographers never met her, and she deliberately hid her real self behind vulgar display. A cautious writer would never consider her as a subject. Stacy Schiff, however, has risen to the bait, with deserved confidence. “Saint-Exupéry: A Biography” and “Véra (Mrs. Vladimir Nabokov)” demonstrated her mastery of the form. “The Great Improvisation,” Schiff’s analysis of Benjamin Franklin’s years in Paris, revealed a different genius: the intellectual stamina required to untangle the endlessly tricky snarls created by the intersection of human personalities and international relations. “Mostly,” Schiff says of “Cleopatra: A Life,” “I have restored context.” The claim stops sounding humble when we understand what it entails. Although it’s not Schiff’s purpose to present us with a feminist revision of a life plucked from antiquity, in order to “restore” Cleopatra — to see her at all — one must strip away an “encrusted myth” created by those for

                            whom “citing her sexual prowess was evidently less discomfiting than acknowledging her intellectual gifts.” Lucan, Appian, Josephus, Dio, Suetonius, Plutarch — the poets, historians and biographers who initially depicted Cleopatra were mostly Roman and all male, writing, for the most part, a century or more after her death with the intent to portray her reign as little more than a sustained striptease.

                            And although Alexandria was the intellectual capital of the known world and Egypt an ancient pioneer of gender equality, the country had “no fine historian” to counter the agendas of those for whom “impugning independent-minded women was a subspecialty.” As Schiff observes, Cleopatra may boast “one of the busiest afterlives in history,” including incarnations as “an asteroid, a video game, a cliché, a cigarette, a slot machine, a strip club, a synonym for Elizabeth Taylor,” but the single piece of documentary evidence that might be traced to her own hand is “perhaps and at most, one written word” (translated as “Let it be done,” with which she or her scribe signed off on a decree). The woman left no primary

                            sources.

                            Born in 69 B.C., Cleopatra ascended the throne of Egypt at 18. As childhood was not a subject of great interest to the ancients, Schiff explains, “players tended to emerge fully formed” into the public consciousness, their recorded lives beginning when they first influenced history. To distract the present-day reader from the absence of her subject’s early years, Schiff neatly draws our attention to a different, albeit geographic, femme fatale — Alexandria. Balanced on the sparkling Mediterranean coast, with a parade-ready colonnade running the length of the city and mechanical marvels like hydraulic lifts, coin-operated machines and statues with flickering eyes, Egypt’s capital made Rome look like the “provincial backwater” it was. Schiff’s rendering of the city is so juicy and cinematic it leaves one with the sense of having visited a hopped-up ancient Las Vegas, with a busy harbor and a really good library.
                            When Cleopatra came to power it was, in accordance with her father’s will, as co-ruler with her 10-year-old brother, Ptolemy, to whom she was wed. Probably her parents were also full siblings. The Egyptian practice of incest among royals was adopted by her Macedonian forebears, who had ruled Egypt since the death of Alexander the Great. But Cleopatra had no more intention of consummating a pro forma marriage than she did of sharing power with a little boy. Educated rigorously with an eye to her future rule, she’d paid careful attention to her father’s missteps as well as his triumphs. To keep her crown required Rome’s allegiance, which she captured in 48 B.C., swiftly and with the flair and ingenuity for which she would be remembered. Goaded into exile as a result of a failed attempt to oust Ptolemy and his advisers, Cleopatra, 21, had herself stuffed into a sturdy sack, smuggled back into her own palace, and presented thus to Julius Caesar, who, taking advantage of Egypt’s political upheaval, had installed himself in the capital. While even her detractors agree, grudgingly, that Cleopatra was blessed with megawatt charisma as well as a formidable intelligence — she spoke nine languages — there is no record of how she persuaded Caesar to support her hegemony rather than making Egypt a province of Rome, and “no convincing political explanation” for his remaining with her in Alexandria for months while his own empire languished. We do know that when he left, Cleopatra was pregnant. Clearly a seduction had been accomplished, and she had far the most to gain from it.

                            To discover what truths remain after two millenniums, Schiff must consider her limited and inconsistent sources through the lenses of anthropology, archaeology and psychology, revealing a ruler who, centuries before those disciplines had been invented, used a similar set of tools to consolidate and maximize the power she inherited. What Schiff describes as Cleopatra’s ability “to slide effortlessly from one idiom to another” depended on what was in fact an astute and arduous campaign to secure the allegiance of a people whose religion and culture she borrowed to suit her own ends. Detractors misrepresented her use of jaw-droppingly over-the-top spectacle as proof of decadence rather than the art of a political visionary. From the beginning of her reign, the young queen had manipulated her largely illiterate populace by staging elaborate productions that underscored and cemented the idea of her divinity and her therefore incontestable rule.

                            Gliding up the Nile, having styled herself as Isis, Cleopatra presented Caesar to “cheering crowds” agog at the gigantic royal barge embedded with gold and ivory and bearing colonnades and 18-foot gilded statues. For as long as nine weeks Cleopatra displayed herself and her alpha mate as “the earthly visitation of two living gods.” And her auspiciously timed pregnancy allowed her to advertise the fertility of their union. When her child was born, she named him Caesarion and, in a further reworking of the myth she inherited, installed “little Caesar” as her co-ruler after his father’s assassination in 44 B.C. Caesar fit neatly into the role of Isis’s partner, Osiris. The supreme male divinity was murdered by enemies who spared his “young male heir and a devoted quick-thinking consort.” As Schiff dryly observes, “the Ides of March handily buttressed the tale.”

                            Egypt had the wealth to underwrite Roman wars; Cleopatra needed Roman clout to keep her throne; it had long been Rome’s intent to annex Egypt. In 41 B.C., Mark Antony, intending to learn where Cleopatra’s post-Caesar loyalties lay, summoned her to Tarsus. Fluent in pantheons other than Egypt’s, Cleopatra there descended as Venus, with an entourage befitting the goddess of love. Her silver-oared barge had purple sails and an orchestra of lyres, flutes and pipes, everything perfumed by “countless incense offerings.” Fair maidens dressed as nymphs and graces worked the ropes while beautiful cupids fanned the queen under her golden canopy. The “blinding explosion of color, sound and smell” captivated another gaping multitude, and the equally astonished Mark Antony followed Cleopatra back to Alexandria. Again using biology to shape destiny, she promptly bore him a son and a daughter, and then another son; she and her lover remained together for the better part of a decade. Death didn’t part so much as bind them together indefinitely, with tandem suicides concluding their biographies on a note of high drama and guaranteeing the staying power of a romance that had held their contemporaries in thrall.

                            Cleopatra mythologized herself before anyone else had the chance. Roman contemporaries misread the pageants she acted out; early biographers were biased, xenophobic, politically motivated and sometimes sensationalistic, writing for an audience that expected to be dazzled by intrigues reflecting its assumptions. It’s dizzying to contemplate the thicket of prejudices, personalities and propaganda Schiff penetrated to reconstruct a woman whose style, ambition and audacity make her a subject worthy of her latest biographer. After all, Stacy Schiff’s writing is distinguished by those very same virtues.
                            Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                            „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

                            Comment

                            • lavce pelagonski
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 1993

                              #29
                              They are going to make a movie out of her book Jolie is playing cleopatra, lets hope they stick with Macedonian and not change it to grk
                              Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                              „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #30
                                She was one of the few Macedonians in Egypt who could still speak Macedonian at the time.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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