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Old 01-09-2017, 11:24 AM   #31
vicsinad
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Albo wrote:

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I'm not talking about remaining in 2001. It was a war, tragic things happen in wartime, we either choose to dwell on the past or try and move forward..
Who decides how far in the past a society can just say: "okay, let's move on from what happened yesterday without rendering justice for what happened yesterday?" It's funny how you didn't have the same gut reaction to the proposal by the three ethnic Albanian parties suggesting that the Macedonian parliament should pass a resolution recognizing a supposed "genocide" of Albanians between 1912 and 1956 in Macedonia.

Without justice, recognition, understanding and acceptance, most steps moving forward are really going to be taking us backwards. It's a delicate balancing act.

With that, the Macedonians are also focusing on the future. They're focusing (or should be) on how to save their nation from being jeopardized and gradually federalized by War Criminal Ahmeti, Rama and the rest of the Greater Albanian agenda proponents. It's not a secret that the Greater Albanian movement works in spurts...has it's lulls and spikes. Macedonians don't trust the Albanian movement for a good reason. The Macedonians keep on giving and giving, and the Albanians keep on saying "give me more."
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:49 AM   #32
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I'm not talking about remaining in 2001. It was a war, tragic things happen in wartime, we either choose to dwell on the past or try and move forward..

Who decides how far in the past a society can just say: "okay, let's move on from what happened yesterday without rendering justice for what happened yesterday?" It's funny how you didn't have the same gut reaction to the proposal by the three ethnic Albanian parties suggesting that the Macedonian parliament should pass a resolution recognizing a supposed "genocide" of Albanians between 1912 and 1956 in Macedonia.
I never said anything about this part of the platform, this was simply added as a "negotiable" issue on the table.. nobody will take responsibility for something that happened prior them being born.

But.. if your unaware of the horrific crimes and expulsions of Albanians from Macedonia during that period, I recommend you do some research.

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Without justice, recognition, understanding and acceptance, most steps moving forward are really going to be taking us backwards. It's a delicate balancing act.
What do you propose we do? The international war crimes court already looked at all the cases that had to do with 2001.

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With that, the Macedonians are also focusing on the future. They're focusing (or should be) on how to save their nation from being jeopardized and gradually federalized by War Criminal Ahmeti, Rama and the rest of the Greater Albanian agenda proponents. It's not a secret that the Greater Albanian movement works in spurts...has it's lulls and spikes. Macedonians don't trust the Albanian movement for a good reason. The Macedonians keep on giving and giving, and the Albanians keep on saying "give me more."
There is noooooo feasible greater Albania movement controlled by some central expansionist committee or something like that... stop being paranoid, all people of the Balkans would prefer to live in a nation state if they were asked... but its not happening, the best all minorities can hope for is to live in a border free region where you can live as you like and be free to express your own heritage and culture regardless which side of the border you live where it wouldn't make a difference if you were un Albania, Macedonia, Greece, Bugaria or wherever..

The only way "Greater" states will be formed in the region is if the powers that be who control the world all ageee to such an idea... the local population will have very little say - as has been the case thorough history in the region..
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Albo View Post
What about luboten.. a village where there was no fighting.. Tarcullovski goes in and innocent men women and children die.. he goes to the Hague is supported by the government is later freed and now a deputy ...
Funny how you should mention Tarculovski and the "civillians" in Ljuboten, but you don't mention the construction workers of Mavrovo who had their name initials carved on their backs after being brutally beaten for minding their own business? Or the burned and mutilated bodies of the soldiers at Vejce? Or blowing up the Lesok monastery with the 2 caretakers of the nearby Brioni restaurant tied to the columns with explosives on them, who did they do wrong to? Or stopping the water supply in Kumanovo from the dam?...

Need I go on? Typical Albanian, you are always the victims aren't you?

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Yes I have been to some parts of central and eastern Macedonia and I've seen the roads they aren't great I agree.. but the situation is different in the west.
There is only one highway that you must be referring to thats the Gostivar - Tetovo - Skopje one..

This isn't a new road its been around for a while and has at least 4 pay tolls on it.. the terrain its built on is flat and is a national highway.. the road your mentioning isn't a national highway as far as I'm aware,?

The problem isn't the payed highways.. but roads linking very large villages where there are 1,000-10,000 inhabitants which are virtually in existent in the east due to migration to the cities (mostly during Yugoslavia)
But are very common in the western region.

A village of 5,000 people shouldn't have to rely on a local road or sewage systems or water treatment plants being built with diaspora and local funding.. This doesn't occur in Macedonian majority regions.. it's very very common in Albanians inhabited regions, I can't stress it enough that its a big issue that has been going on for a very long time and needs to be addressed.
What you're saying is a problem in the entire country mate, not just Albanian-populated areas.
Towns and villages in the east are connected through old roads that sometimes cannot fit one vehicle let alone two.
The only 2 highways in Macedonia are E 75 (Skopje-Veles-Gevgeija,central Macedonia) and E 65 (Skopje-Tetovo-Gostivar-Kichevo-Ohrid-Resen-Bitola, western Macedonia), none of which is in east Macedonia, that alone should tell you something.
The road network in the west is better than the east beyond comparison.

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Are you serious, I'm not sure how well you know the location of these neighborhoods, these Albanian neighborhoods are predominantly a stone throw from the city center, and they have been deliberately underfunded in all sectors by whomever has been in power for decades..
You seem to be a bit confused Albo. First of all, the only Albanian-dominated district that is "a stone throw from the city center" is Chair, and Chair has the Mother Theresa Memorial Home, the town square, the legendary Stara Charshija, and a fully modernized Skopje Railway Station. Doesn't sound like a ghetto to me at all.
Moreover, why would you count Butel and Gazi Baba as Albanian districts, since according to official statistics Macedonians are majority there (Butel: Macedonians 62%, Albanians 25%, Gazi Baba: Macedonians 73%, Abanians 17%)? You have just refuted your own thesis since these are obviously Macedonian-populated "ghettos", as you put them.
Oh, and the other Albanian-dominated Skopje district - Saraj, is nowhere near the central area so that only confirms my previous statement of geography-based urbanization instead of ethnically-based one.
Last but not least, you wrote "by whomever has been in power for decades"...Well, there has been at east one Albanian political party in power at any time since our independence.
Adding to that, Saraj and Chair have Albanian mayors, so if you need someone to blame it's them, not Macedonians.
You need to get your facts straight Albo.

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Even in remote regions where you have lagre populations there need to be state funded basic medical services on hand, eg Clinics, Ambulances, Pharmacies...
This is not asking for too much I believe!
No, it's not.
Every town as small as it can be should have appropriate medical facilities. But they don't. Macedonian healthcare sucks on the entire territory.
Do you know that most villages in the east don't even have an ambulance or a pharmacy, let alone a hospital?
Or that Stip has the ONLY Clinical Center in the entire eastern part?
Patients as far as Berovo,Pehcevo,Makedonska Kamenica,Vinica etc are being examined in the Stip medical center's orthopedic office, because it's the nearest orthopedic ambulance for these people!
Mothers with newborns from these towns have to go all the way to Stip for a simple orthopedic exam for their babies.
Elderly people who are on therapy for fractured bones need to travel to Stip for their progress checks.
Please,tell me more how medical facilities in the east are better than those in the west.

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What statistics show that the west has more jobs and investment historically than the east?

Gruevski opened many economic free zones in places like shtip.and prilep where he would proudly boast about how many jobs he's crated...


Manufacturing and production factories from foreign or local investment virtually don't exist in Albanian majority regions..



70% Unemployment doesn't exist in the Macedonian. community, It's not the same.
Simply look at the unemployment rates for each municipality and you'll see the difference.
The main economic branches of Macedonia's east were agriculture and textile.
Once the transition kicked in, the main agricultural company in the east "Crvena Zvezda", textile giants like "Makedonka" & "Astibo" from Stip,"Frotirka" from Delcevo,"Vinka" from Vinica etc were all closed and liquidated,leaving all workers home.
Thousands of people lost their jobs and like I said, Probistip, Sveti Nikole, Delcevo etc are now "dead" towns, people from these towns either moved in search for work or are travelling every day to their work places (most of them work in bigger towns like Stip or Strumica) because there is NO WORK there.
Please, tell me more about 70% unemployment rate.

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Migration for survival is new to the Macedonians or not as prevalent as it has been in the Albanian community since the days.of Yugoslavia, we have so many people working in Europe and America simply so families can survive in Macedonia
I'll let the Macedonian diaspora answer this, hold on to your pants...

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I have family members who have finished university have officially been given a job, but stay home because they are told " We have nothing for you to do" or " We are trying to fit you in - but we can't"

The reason they "can't fot them in" is simple in the eyes of the Albanians. (Don't know if Macedonians see it this way) but, The word is that VMRO would rather have these young employed people stay at home like parasites draining public funds where they have no chance to form any type of career or future within the state system..
The 35-40% people in Macedonia that live in poverty would have absolutely nothing against staying at home and draining public funds.
They couldn't care less about a career in the system, all they want is food on the table, clothes, a roof over their head and paid bills.
Seems like your relatives have a privilege most Macedonians don't.
They should be very grateful for that instead of complaining.

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In fact by not allowing any type of access to basic level entry jobs within state institutions like ministries you halt any type of future development up the chain of command where real decisions and differences are made.
Did I just read that right?
You have minister seats, deputy-minister seats, manager seats, directors seats etc that are held by Albanians mate.
DUI,DPSh and PPD in their respective days have all held important seats while in the governments of DPMNE/SDSM.
Where have you been the past 25 years?

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As for Albanians having more rights than anyone in the Balkans.. See - Serbs of Kosovo

5% of the population Serbian is official throughout the country.

5% Are guaranteed 20 seats in the parliament (as many as then Albanians have with 25% of the population in Macedonia) regardless how many vote.

Let me not get into local territorial special provisions and parallel institutions and veto rights.. But that's all another issue..
I never said Albanians have more rights than anyone in the Balkans, what I said was that Albanians have more rights in Macedonia than in any other country they live in with the exceptions of Albania and the protectorate of Kosovo.
You're comparing apples to oranges here.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:23 PM   #34
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I never said anything about this part of the platform, this was simply added as a "negotiable" issue on the table.. nobody will take responsibility for something that happened prior them being born.
I know you didn't say anything about this part of the platform. That's the point. You're quick to tell someone not to look to the past when it concerns 2001, but quick to keep your mouth shut when it concerns something about the Albanians.

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But.. if your unaware of the horrific crimes and expulsions of Albanians from Macedonia during that period, I recommend you do some research.
I'm aware of what the Serbs did during their occupation of Macedonia, against Macedonians, Albanians, Jews and others. I'm also aware of the harm the Albanians caused to Macedonians and Christians during both WW1 and WW2. And I'm also aware of what several hundred years of Albanians using their newly acquired Muslim faith to gain an upper hand against their Christian neighbors during the Ottoman times did to the Macedonian. Through some of the most despicable forms of violence.

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What do you propose we do? The international war crimes court already looked at all the cases that had to do with 2001.
Why does it have to be an international court? Though I wonder how closely the international courts looked at NLA's destruction of monasteries and churches. Leshok monastery ring a bell? Who got justice for that?

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There is noooooo feasible greater Albania movement controlled by some central expansionist committee or something like that... stop being paranoid, all people of the Balkans would prefer to live in a nation state if they were asked...
Who said it was controlled by some central expansionist committee? Though we know that one of the founders of its military branch (KLA), Ahmeti, has a history of advocating and fighting for Albanian independence. This is not paranoia. It's looking at the facts and making a general conclusion. Sure all peoples would prefer to live in a nation state, but the Macedonians in Albania or Greece aren't taking up arms, killing people, to accomplish this agenda. That's the point you're missing.

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The only way "Greater" states will be formed in the region is if the powers that be who control the world all ageee to such an idea... the local population will have very little say - as has been the case thorough history in the region..
Herein lies the problems. The Balkan people have never settled their own scores. There's always interference. The powers, though, cannot act without local populations.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:11 PM   #35
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What about luboten.. a village where there was no fighting.. Tarcullovski goes in and innocent men women and children die.. he goes to the Hague is supported by the government is later freed and now a deputy ...

Funny how you should mention Tarculovski and the "civillians" in Ljuboten, but you don't mention the construction workers of Mavrovo who had their name initials carved on their backs after being brutally beaten for minding their own business? Or the burned and mutilated bodies of the soldiers at Vejce? Or blowing up the Lesok monastery with the 2 caretakers of the nearby Brioni restaurant tied to the columns with explosives on them, who did they do wrong to? Or stopping the water supply in Kumanovo from the dam?...

Need I go on? Typical Albanian, you are always the victims aren't you?
No we aren't the only victims... not saying that, I said in a war horrific things occur..

The Lluboten case was clearly the one that stood out because civilians were KILLED,
The Mavrovo workers case was terrible and at the time was done by an offshoot if the KLA called AKSH which took responsibility at the time and were responsible for more tensions after the FA was signed.

The leshok monastery case was always said to be an inside job , it occurred at a time when international media attention was not in favor of Macedonia.. so to gain support from the west to try and create a Muslim vs Christian aspect to the war, it was blown up in a professional manner with explosives that were no used prior by the KLA either in Kosovo or Macedonia, ( I'll post the article when I find it)

It made no sense for them to blow up a church which Albanians of the region see as a church onced visited by ancestors, Albanians also contributed to the rebuilding of the church. Whoever did it I condem it.

Vejce was tragic but was seen as a military target during a war that fell into an ambush deep behind kla lines.

Stopping the water supply in Kumanovo affected even the Albanians of the city.. It was stupid and I never understood the action..


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Yes I have been to some parts of central and eastern Macedonia and I've seen the roads they aren't great I agree.. but the situation is different in the west.
There is only one highway that you must be referring to thats the Gostivar - Tetovo - Skopje one..

This isn't a new road its been around for a while and has at least 4 pay tolls on it.. the terrain its built on is flat and is a national highway.. the road your mentioning isn't a national highway as far as I'm aware,?

The problem isn't the payed highways.. but roads linking very large villages where there are 1,000-10,000 inhabitants which are virtually in existent in the east due to migration to the cities (mostly during Yugoslavia)
But are very common in the western region.

A village of 5,000 people shouldn't have to rely on a local road or sewage systems or water treatment plants being built with diaspora and local funding.. This doesn't occur in Macedonian majority regions.. it's very very common in Albanians inhabited regions, I can't stress it enough that its a big issue that has been going on for a very long time and needs to be addressed.

What you're saying is a problem in the entire country mate, not just Albanian-populated areas.
Towns and villages in the east are connected through old roads that sometimes cannot fit one vehicle let alone two.

The only 2 highways in Macedonia are E 75 (Skopje-Veles-Gevgeija,central Macedonia) and E 65 (Skopje-Tetovo-Gostivar-Kichevo-Ohrid-Resen-Bitola, western Macedonia), none of which is in east Macedonia, that alone should tell you something.

The road network in the west is better than the east beyond comparison.
From Gostivar to Skopje one must pay 4 tolls off memory,
Kicevo- Ohrid -Resen- Bitola- Prilep isn't a freeway but a slow winding road with NO Tolls, which is mostly used by Macedonians.

The reason the road system is shit is because it hasn't been a priority for the government, they saw Skopje 2014 as more important than many other priorities that the country has.


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You seem to be a bit confused Albo. First of all, the only Albanian-dominated district that is "a stone throw from the city center" is Chair, and Chair has the Mother Theresa Memorial Home, the town square, the legendary Stara Charshija, and a fully modernized Skopje Railway Station. Doesn't sound like a ghetto to me at all.
Ammm you seem to be misinformed, ONLY Stara Charshija is in Cair... NONE IF THE OTHERS ARE IN CAIR.. look them up they are in Centar or aerodrom municipalities.

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Moreover, why would you count Butel and Gazi Baba as Albanian districts, since according to official statistics Macedonians are majority there (Butel: Macedonians 62%, Albanians 25%, Gazi Baba: Macedonians 73%, Abanians 17%)? You have just refuted your own thesis since these are obviously Macedonian-populated "ghettos", as you put them.
I didn't say the whole Municipality of Butel and Gazi Baba... I said the Albanian Neighborhoods of those municipalities look like ghettos compared to Macedonian neighborhoods..



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Oh, and the other Albanian-dominated Skopje district - Saraj, is nowhere near the central area so that only confirms my previous statement of geography-based urbanization instead of ethnically-based one.
Saraj isn't an urban district ...it's a rural municipality made up of around 30 predominantly Albanian Villages

Don't expect Saraj to have what Gorce Petrov has, unless an urbanization process occurs and the city is expanded towards Saraj.

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Last but not least, you wrote "by whomever has been in power for decades"...Well, there has been at east one Albanian political party in power at any time since our independence.
Adding to that, Saraj and Chair have Albanian mayors, so if you need someone to blame it's them, not Macedonians.
You need to get your facts straight Albo.
Yes I agree Albanian mayors have been partially to blame also.. but the funding for municipalities comes from the central government- who don't allocate funds equally- eg , if Albanians make up 20% of the city of Skopje and they received 20% of the money that was allocated to Skopje 2014 (est- total of €600,000,000)
Trust me Cair and Saraj wouldn't be complaining.

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Every town as small as it can be should have appropriate medical facilities. But they don't. Macedonian healthcare sucks on the entire territory.
Do you know that most villages in the east don't even have an ambulance or a pharmacy, let alone a hospital?
Or that Stip has the ONLY Clinical Center in the entire eastern part?

Patients as far as Berovo,Pehcevo,Makedonska Kamenica,Vinica etc are being examined in the Stip medical center's orthopedic office, because it's the nearest orthopedic ambulance for these people!
Mothers with newborns from these towns have to go all the way to Stip for a simple orthopedic exam for their babies.

Elderly people who are on therapy for fractured bones need to travel to Stip for their progress checks.
Please,tell me more how medical facilities in the east are better than those in the west.
This is another reason as to why Albanian parties demand greater decentralisiation a larger equal distribution of funds to local councils based on population numbers, do that small local communities and towns aren't held hostage to whomever is in power and who they allocate funds to.

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Simply look at the unemployment rates for each municipality and you'll see the difference.
The main economic branches of Macedonia's east were agriculture and textile.

Once the transition kicked in, the main agricultural company in the east "Crvena Zvezda", textile giants like "Makedonka" & "Astibo" from Stip,"Frotirka" from Delcevo,"Vinka" from Vinica etc were all closed and liquidated,leaving all workers home.

Thousands of people lost their jobs and like I said, Probistip, Sveti Nikole, Delcevo etc are now "dead" towns, people from these towns either moved in search for work or are travelling every day to their work places (most of them work in bigger towns like Stip or Strumica) because there is NO WORK there.
Please, tell me more about 70% unemployment rate.
Yes many people were privileged to at least once have these jobs and gain skills to keep working elsewhere,
When these companies were operational and providing thousands of jobs for Macedonians, Albanians were migrating abroad to simly survive. State jobs were foreign to most Albanains,
Today the situation has slightly improved but most are seen as lucky to have 1 employed person in a household.

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The 35-40% people in Macedonia that live in poverty would have absolutely nothing against staying at home and draining public funds.
They couldn't care less about a career in the system, all they want is food on the table, clothes, a roof over their head and paid bills.
Seems like your relatives have a privilege most Macedonians don't.
They should be very grateful for that instead of complaining.

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I don't see it as a privilege but more as a curse and a waste of education, where you stay home.abd don't reach your full potential.

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Did I just read that right?
You have minister seats, deputy-minister seats, manager seats, directors seats etc that are held by Albanians mate.
DUI,DPSh and PPD in their respective days have all held important seats while in the governments of DPMNE/SDSM.
Where have you been the past 25 years?
I was talking about entry jobs for the people who stay home.and get paid not minsters.

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You're comparing apples to oranges here.
Kosovo is nothing alike any other country in the world.It's simply beyond comparison.
Every country is like no other and are unique in some way... so who do you propose we compare Macedonia to?
Which other country that has a similar ethnic diversity and is prosperous?
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:59 PM   #36
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Albo, the mere fact that Dragan has a very reasonable and equally discomforting (opposing) perspective for each and every one of your grievances should be enough to tell you that Macedonians suffer more than enough in their own right. This should be a BINDING issue. Not a DIVISIVE one.

So, instead of meeting with Albanian leaders from Albania to formulate ridiculously unreasonable demands, perhaps ethnic Albanians from Macedonia should consider ways of improving their Macedonian country TOGETHER with Macedonians.

Ethnic Albanians from Macedonia often know more Macedonian than I do and are very much in touch with local vernacular and nuance in conversations over there. They are VERY Macedonian. They could be better Macedonians, even as ethnic Albanians. But they choose to back the other horse, the one that rides in promising Greater Albania and a whole bunch of other myths. The shithole called Kosovo should be a reminder that reality is quite far removed from your dream.

Macedonians have been oppressed for centuries, most ethnic Albanians chose to embrace Islam over 100 years ago so they could take advantage of the political landscape. Will ethnic Albanians only be happy once they have the upper hand like in Ottoman times? Perhaps it has formed part of their psyche with the loss of rights over the majority making them bitter.

The simple matter is that ethnic Albanians in Macedonia are pretty much treated with the same contempt that Macedonians in Macedonia are and you don't know or want to admit it. Instead, you seek to use ethnic Albanian grievances as fuel for partitioning or war or whatever suits the "agenda".

Work together, find a way. Show me examples of ethnic Albanians working together with Macedonians in a community spirit.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:19 AM   #37
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The Lluboten case was clearly the one that stood out because civilians were KILLED
The people killed only wore civilian clothes, that doesn't make them civilians. It was common back then that terrorists would remove their uniforms and weapons whenever security forces outnumbered them. Many of these "civilians" after the ballistic tests were shown to have traces of gunpowder on their hands, meaning they had recently fired a firearm.
Whatever happened there,Tarculovski spent 2/3 of his sentence in jail for following orders. Chapter closed.
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The Mavrovo workers case was terrible and at the time was done by an offshoot if the KLA called AKSH which took responsibility at the time and were responsible for more tensions after the FA was signed.
Isn't that convenient?
Ahmeti was the supreme commander of the terrorists, so which detachment did what is irrelevant.They were ultimately under his command and he bears the burden of responsibility for what his troops do.
The fact is that even today thousands of Macedonians can't return to their homes because they're either destroyed or occupied by their Albanian once-neighbors, not to mention the dozens of Macedonian civilians missing till this very day (most probably executed).
The side that did the crimes against humanity during the 2001 conflict didn't end up paying for a single one of these cases.
And you speak of discrimination?

Quote:
The leshok monastery case was always said to be an inside job , it occurred at a time when international media attention was not in favor of Macedonia.. so to gain support from the west to try and create a Muslim vs Christian aspect to the war, it was blown up in a professional manner with explosives that were no used prior by the KLA either in Kosovo or Macedonia, ( I'll post the article when I find it)

It made no sense for them to blow up a church which Albanians of the region see as a church onced visited by ancestors, Albanians also contributed to the rebuilding of the church. Whoever did it I condem it
Conspiracy theories served up for the Albanian masses as an excuse for a shameful act.
Why don't you ask Gjoko Lazarevski's fellow combatants from those days who did they defend the civilians of Lesok from? The terrorists or some imaginary phantoms serving foreign powers' agenda?
Stop making a fool of yourself and respect the man's heroic actions that enabled his fellow villagers evacuate on time before the terrorists took over the village at the cost of his own life.

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Vejce was tragic but was seen as a military target during a war that fell into an ambush deep behind kla lines.
In war you just shoot to kill, and whoever surrenders is considered a prisoner of war and has rights guaranteed by international law.
Here, the autopsy showed that only one of the 8 soldiers was killed during the initial attack.
The other 7 were captured by the insurgents, tortured, mutilated, and burned alive.
What kind of a beast is capable of such thing?
No,Vejce was not just some ambush in a military conflict, Vejce was a crime against humanity done by savage beasts that took joy in mutilating the bodies of their enemies.

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From Gostivar to Skopje one must pay 4 tolls off memory,
Kicevo- Ohrid -Resen- Bitola- Prilep isn't a freeway but a slow winding road with NO Tolls, which is mostly used by Macedonians.
Hey, it's not the Macedonians' fault that they use this freeway more than Albanians.Roads are open for everyone.
But at least you have a highway in the west, we in the east have none.

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Ammm you seem to be misinformed, ONLY Stara Charshija is in Cair... NONE IF THE OTHERS ARE IN CAIR.. look them up they are in Centar or aerodrom municipalities.
Not according to the official map of Chair municipality:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...5!4d21.4365318
The Makedonija square, along with all those sculptures and monuments is obviously in Chair, the Telecom building, MEPSO building, a big part of the modern railway station, the mother Theresa Memorial House...Even Stara Charshija which is one of the most famous parts of Skopje is in Chair.
But like I said,Chair is one of the districts close to the center so this level of urbanization is expected.

Quote:
I didn't say the whole Municipality of Butel and Gazi Baba... I said the Albanian Neighborhoods of those municipalities look like ghettos compared to Macedonian neighborhoods..
Like I said, the closer to the center - the more urbanized municipalities are.
I have a grandfather who lives in Zelezara (which is a part of Butel municipality but very close to Gazi Baba), and I could see from his house that houses and buildings in the surrounding area are more modern near to the center than those that are on the opposite side.
It's got nothing to do with ethnicity, it's a simple question of geography.

Quote:
Yes I agree Albanian mayors have been partially to blame also.. but the funding for municipalities comes from the central government- who don't allocate funds equally- eg , if Albanians make up 20% of the city of Skopje and they received 20% of the money that was allocated to Skopje 2014 (est- total of €600,000,000)
Trust me Cair and Saraj wouldn't be complaining.

This is another reason as to why Albanian parties demand greater decentralisiation a larger equal distribution of funds to local councils based on population numbers, do that small local communities and towns aren't held hostage to whomever is in power and who they allocate funds to.
Just as a reminder, the decentralization law is in force since 2004, that gives your mayors almost 13 years now to do with municipality money whatever they want.
So again, if there is someone to blame, it's the local authorities and not the Macedonians.

Quote:
Yes many people were privileged to at least once have these jobs and gain skills to keep working elsewhere,
When these companies were operational and providing thousands of jobs for Macedonians, Albanians were migrating abroad to simly survive. State jobs were foreign to most Albanains,
Today the situation has slightly improved but most are seen as lucky to have 1 employed person in a household.
During Yugoslavia, everyone had a state job since everything was owned by the state and got skills at their workplace.
You can't possibly convince me that Albanians in Macedonia were unemployed during Yugoslavia and therefore didn't obtain work skills after the breakup in order to continue working in the private sector.
Again you're using victimization by making it sound like there were no factories in the west. Get a grip please.

Quote:
I don't see it as a privilege but more as a curse and a waste of education, where you stay home.abd don't reach your full potential.
Not everyone sees it this way.
As I said there are many people in Macedonia that would gladly sit home doing nothing and receive money for it.

Quote:
I was talking about entry jobs for the people who stay home.and get paid not minsters.
Entry jobs? Mate, 25% of all state jobs (present and future) are mandatory to be Albanian, even if candidates aren't qualified enough.
When I took the test while applying for a policeman, there were over 20 Albanians who got much lower scores than mine but they ended up in the police and I ended up with a tap on the shoulder and a "try next time mate".
Please, tell me more about discrimination.

Quote:
Every country is like no other and are unique in some way... so who do you propose we compare Macedonia to?
Which other country that has a similar ethnic diversity and is prosperous?
Simple - take USA and it's Hispanic population for example.
The US have 56,6 million "Latinos" making up around 18% of the total population. And this is without the children of mixed parentage where one of the parents is Hispanic.
I don't see Latinos demanding the use of Spanish as the second official language (even in places where they're a majority), nor grabbing arms for more "human rights", nor demanding mandatory quotas for state jobs. Do you?
They speak the official language of the country they live in - English, they get jobs according to their qualifications instead of their ethnic background, they abide the laws of the country, and most of them proudly state they're Americans.
Why can't Albanians do the same here?
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:19 AM   #38
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Albo, the mere fact that Dragan has a very reasonable and equally discomforting (opposing) perspective for each and every one of your grievances should be enough to tell you that Macedonians suffer more than enough in their own right. This should be a BINDING issue. Not a DIVISIVE one.
I understand that there are many similar grievances amongst both communities that should be a binding factor... but also there needs to be an understanding that there are also spacific needs that different regions and communities have which need to be addressed.

We don't want Macedonians to make our lives better, we want legal mechanisms in place that will create the ability to equally do as much as possible for ourselves in the regions we live and not be at the mercy of the generosity of whichever future Macedonian leader.

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So, instead of meeting with Albanian leaders from Albania to formulate ridiculously unreasonable demands, perhaps ethnic Albanians from Macedonia should consider ways of improving their Macedonian country TOGETHER with Macedonians.
Well Albanians have been TOGETHER with VMRO for over 10 years, and what has VMRO done to bring the communities together?

They organized state sponsored attacks via Sasho &Co like Moster, Brodec, Kumanovo. To disrupt the country and create greatet division all in the name of protecting his own posse. While demonizing Albanians and refusing to accept foreign assistance which would independently investigate the cases,. But what did they do they example with the Monster Smilkovci case, after the attack they went and rounded up hundreds of people in Kumanovo and without any form of trial or hearing, in under 24 hours Jankulovska comes out and says " We caught the perpetrators and they did it in the name of Islamic terrorism- No presumption of innocence, no judge, no proof .. But only Jankuloska at a press conference being judge and jury...
This doesn't create any form of unity...

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Ethnic Albanians from Macedonia often know more Macedonian than I do and are very much in touch with local vernacular and nuance in conversations over there. They are VERY Macedonian. They could be better Macedonians, even as ethnic Albanians. But they choose to back the other horse, the one that rides in promising Greater Albania and a whole bunch of other myths. The shithole called Kosovo should be a reminder that reality is quite far removed from your dream.
Most Albanians are bi-lingua or even Tri-lingual this doesn't effect our strong sense of knowing who we are,
The greater Albania Albanophobia that has overrun in the media is creating an issue in the heads of Macedonians that night and day all we do is plan for a Greater Albania., the only time a greater whaterver will occur weather we like it or not is when or if the worlds superpowers say so.. ITS NOT IN OUR HANDS, We are all small pawn in the greater picture..

Calls and support for a Greater Albainia will
Only gain ground if Macedonia isn't inclusive,accepting and understanding of Albanian needs. If they keep delaying reforms and EU/NATO integration (without sorting the name issue) or continue anti-western rhetoric while flirting with Russia.. then Albanians will come out and say we want to move forward with the rest of the region and not be excluded and held back due to Macedonian issues..

Living standards of Albanians in Macedonia at the fall of communism at one stage were higher than those from Albania and Kosovo, Today this is far from the case, another reason which would increase nationalistic voices is if economically other Albanian regions are see to be doing far better off than than the Albanian regions of Macedonia, I'm not threatening, it's just how the situation is seen... but again as I have said earlier, this is all in the hands of the powers that be.

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Macedonians have been oppressed for centuries, most ethnic Albanians chose to embrace Islam over 100 years ago so they could take advantage of the political landscape. Will ethnic Albanians only be happy once they have the upper hand like in Ottoman times? Perhaps it has formed part of their psyche with the loss of rights over the majority making them bitter.

The simple matter is that ethnic Albanians in Macedonia are pretty much treated with the same contempt that Macedonians in Macedonia are and you don't know or want to admit it. Instead, you seek to use ethnic Albanian grievances as fuel for partitioning or war or whatever suits the "agenda".

Work together, find a way. Show me examples of ethnic Albanians working together with Macedonians in a community spirit.
We don't want the upper hand, we want a Macedonia that takes decisions with our best interest in mind,
We need consensual decision making at all levels in matters that directly effect us... This is the idea of the FA, but has never been fully implimented.

We need Macedonian and Albanian leaders that do things together, promote programs, jointly inaugurate prijects make joint public appearance, give joint press conferences, ect
Unity needs to be shown from the top..
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:47 AM   #39
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The people killed only wore civilian clothes, that doesn't make them civilians. It was common back then that terrorists would remove their uniforms and weapons whenever security forces outnumbered them.

Many of these "civilians" after the ballistic tests were shown to have traces of gunpowder on their hands, meanaing they had recently fired a firearm.
Whatever happened there,Tarculovski spent 2/3 of his sentence in jail for following orders. Chapter close
Have you read the "Human rights watch" report..?


Crimes Against Civilians:
Abuses by Macedonian Forces in Ljuboten, August 10-12, 2001



SUMMARY
This report details a three-day operation by Macedonian police against the predominantly ethnic Albanian village of Ljuboten from August 10-12, 2001. The operation left ten civilians dead and resulted in the arrest of more than 100 men, many of whom were severely beaten while in police custody. Contrary to assertions by the Macedonian government, a Human Rights Watch investigation on the ground in Ljuboten found no evidence of a presence by the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army. Human Rights Watch calls on the Macedonian government to conduct an independent and impartial inquiry into the violations of human rights and international humanitarian law that occurred in Ljuboten.

Following a landmine explosion that killed eight government soldiers on the Skopska Crna Gorna mountain on Friday, August 10, 2001, Macedonian police forces sealed off a nearby ethnic Albanian village, Ljuboten, and began a fierce attack on the village. Following two days of shelling of Ljuboten on Friday and Saturday, several hundred Macedonian police forces entered the village on Sunday, August 12 and began a house-to-house attack along the northern-most street in Ljuboten.

Macedonian police forces committed serious abuses during their three-day operation in Ljuboten. They indiscriminately shelled the village, causing the deaths of a six-year-old boy and a sixty-six-year-old man, and contributing to the death of another elderly man who died from shock after a shell hit his home. During their Sunday house-to-house attack, police forces shot dead six civilians. One man was killed by police as he tried to close the door to his home when the police entered the yard. Two men were summarily executed by police after they were taken out of the basement in which they were hiding. Another three civilians were shot dead by police after they attempted to flee their home, which had been set afire by police shelling.

During their Sunday attack, police fired indiscriminately into the homes of civilians, at times throwing hand grenades and even firing rocket-propelled grenades into homes. One such rocket-propelled grenade was fired directly into a room filled with four men, their wives, and eight children. The Macedonian police also burned at least twenty-two houses, sheds, and stores along their route, using gasoline to set many of them aflame. In some cases, police officers robbed civilians of their valuables.

The abuse continued for the hundreds of ethnic Albanian civilians who tried to flee Ljuboten. At least three men were beaten unconscious by ethnic Macedonian vigilantes in full view of the Macedonian police, and one was shot and wounded as he attempted to flee the beating. Over one hundred men were arrested and taken to police stations in Skopje, where they were subjected to severe beatings. Atulah Qaini, aged thirty-five, was taken away alive from the village by police officers, and his badly beaten and mutilated corpse was later recovered by family members from the city morgue. Another man was beaten so severely that he had to be hospitalized. At least twenty-four men, including a thirteen-year-old boy, remain in police custody at the time of publication of this report.

The Ljuboten operation was carried out by the Macedonian Ministry of Interior’s regular and reservist police troops. The Ministry of Interior claims that the operation was directed against a stronghold of the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army (NLA), and that the persons killed were “terrorists.” However, the detailed Human Rights Watch investigation summarized in this report refutes that claim. There is no credible evidence that there was an NLA presence in Ljuboten during the attack, nor that any of the villagers put up an armed resistance against the Macedonian police forces. The evidence available to Human Rights Watch indicates that the attack on Ljuboten had no military justification and was carried out for purposes of revenge.

The abuses committed by the Macedonian police are among the most serious committed so far in Macedonia’s six-month old conflict. A government newscast on Sunday evening, August 12, showed Macedonian Minister of Interior Ljube Boskovski, personally present in Ljuboten that day. According to the newscaster, the Minister was present “during the entire operation” on Sunday.

It is imperative that an independent and credible investigation is conducted into the role of Minister Ljube Boskovski, as well as the troops under his command, in the events in Ljuboten. Should the Macedonian authorities fail to carry out such an investigation, an inquiry should be commenced by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, which has jurisdiction over war crimes committed in the course of the Macedonia conflict.

Monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) were able to visit Ljuboten two days after the Sunday attack, and gathered significant information from the scene and from villagers. However, the OSCE chose to remain silent about the abuses in Ljuboten. By remaining silent, the OSCE has helped the Macedonian government maintain its version of events in Ljuboten and avoid any further investigation.

Read full report here:
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/macedonia/


Quote:
Isn't that convenient?
Ahmeti was the supreme commander of the terrorists, so which detachment did what is irrelevant.
The fact is that even today thousands of Macedonians can't return to their homes because they're either destroyed or occupied by their Albanian once-neighbors, not to mention the dozens of Macedonian civilians missing till this very day (most probably executed).
The side that did the most crimes against humanity during the 2001 conflict didn't end up paying for a single one of these cases.
And you speak of discrimination?
I'm not saying no crimes were commited by the Albanians.. but unlike Ljuboten there was very little proof of who the perpetrators were so they could go to trial at the ICC..
But i fully believe whoever was to blame should be locked up and never released even if they were Albanian,
This was an anti-Albanian act which was against the national interest in the Albanians at the time.

There are still missing people from both communities but there aren't dozens missing as you say.

Quote:
Conspiracy theories served up for the Albanian masses as an excuse for a shameful act.
Why don't you ask Gjoko Lazarevski's fellow combatants from those days who did they defend the civilians of Lesok from? The terrorists or some imaginary phantoms serving foreign powers' agenda?
Stop making a fool of yourself and respect the man's heroic actions that enabled his fellow villagers evacuate on time before the terrorists took over the village at the cost of his own life.
I dont know who he is or what he did!

Quote:
n war you just shoot to kill, and whoever surrenders is considered a prisoner of war and has rights guaranteed by international law.
Here, the autopsy showed that only one of the 8 soldiers was killed during the initial attack.
The other 7 were captured by the insurgents, tortured, mutilated, and burned alive.

What kind of a beast is capable of such thing?
No,Vejce was not just some ambush in a military conflict, Vejce was a crime against humanity done by savage beasts that took joy in mutilating the bodies of their enemies.
This was the governments version of events that were changed from the initial statement made by Pendarovski

Macedonian Army soldiers were attacked near the village of Vejce, nine miles north of Tetovo. Stevo Pendarovski, the Interior Ministry spokesman, said ‘‘Eight are killed and two are injured. They were fired at with machine guns and rocket launchers. Macedonian forces responded, and the attackers withdrew. The situation is quiet now. It was an isolated incident.’’[11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tetovo


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Not according to the official image of the Chair municipality:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...5!4d21.4365318
The Makedonija square, along with all those sculptures and monuments is obviously in Chair, the Telecom building, MEPSO building, a big part of the modern railway station, the mother Theresa Memorial House...Even Stara Charshija which is one of the most famous parts of Skopje is in Chair.
But like I said,Chair is one of the districts close to the center so this level of urbanization is expected
Your looking at the wrong map...That was Centar not Chair... this is Chair.. one of the most densely populated municipalities in Europe because wouldn't budge at the negotiationg table when new boundaries were discussed, there was some talk of giving Chair the Ilinden barracks site , where a new urbanized region could be built, but the city of Skopje hasn't agreed yet,

As Chair is overpopulated with no free land for any new development sites many young couples and diaspora members have been buying appartments in neighboring Butel and Gazi Baba.

This is Chair.. not what you posted, none of the sites you mentioned are in Chair..
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...6ab49bd50895c9

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Just as a reminder, the decentralization law is in force since 2004, that gives your mayors almost 13 years now to do with municipality money whatever they want.
So again, if there is someone to blame, it's the local authorities and not the Macedonians
Yes the law is flawed it needs to change for the better of all or Macedonians municipalities,
Macedonia is still one of the most centralized countries in Europe where funds aren't allocated accordingly from the central government. This is another reason even towns in central.and eastern Macedonia are in such poor condition.. Mayors can only do as much as their budgets allow.

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During Yugoslavia, everyone had a state job since everything was owned by the state and got skills at their workplace.

You can't possibly convince me that Albanians in Macedonia were unemployed during Yugoslavia and therefore didn't obtain work skills after the breakup in order to continue working in the private sector.
Again you're using victimization by making it sound like there were no factories in the west. Get a grip please.
Well I'm telling you that during Yugoslavia the amount of Albanians in public sector jobs was minimal,
Most either worked. in agriculture or small family run businesses throughout Yugoslavia, thats why Albanians don't historically expect to survive from government jobs and economically weren't as shocked and effected by the fall of communism, they are generally more savy in finding a way to survive and don't mind working all types of seasonal jobs abroad to get by.

Quote:
Not everyone sees it this way.
As I said there are many people in Macedonia that would gladly sit home doing nothing and receive money for it.
Well how do you see ?
Do you gain any life experience and personal growth living at home with no furure living like a parasite?
There in no benefit long term.

Quote:
Entry jobs? Mate, 25% of all state jobs (present and future) are mandatory to be Albanian, even if candidates aren't qualified enough.
When I took the test while applying for a policeman, there were over 20 Albanians who got much lower scores than mine but they ended up in the police and I ended up with a tap on the shoulder and a "try next time mate".
Please, tell me more about discrimination.
They may be mandatory but they aren't..
Look I feel for your situation and it must suck, maybe you should habe tried again if you felt you really wanted .to be a cop.
But what you need ton understand is that the wrongs of the previous 50 years needed to be corrected where Albanians weren't wanted in the police force and were denied jobs simply for being Albanian,

This is how positive discrimination works, in 2001 Albanians were under 5% of the Police force in Western Macedonia.
Drastic measures were needed.



Quote:
Simple - take USA and it's Hispanic population for example.
The US have 56,6 million "Latinos" making up around 18% of the total population.And this is without the children of mixed parentage where one of the parents is Hispanic.

I don't see Latinos demanding the use of Spanish as the second official language (even in places where they're a majority), nor grabbing arms for more "human rights", nor demanding mandatory quotes for state jobs.Do you?
They speak the official language of the country they live in - English, they get jobs according to their qualifications instead of their ethnic background, they abide the laws of the country, and most of them proudly state they're Americans.
Why can't Albanians do the same here?
Amm I don't know but the USA doesn't have an official language perse, and Spanish is used widely at all levels in many southern states and their institutions.

Although the United States has no de jure official language, English is the dominant language of business, education, government, religion, media, culture, civil society, and the public sphere. Virtually all state and federal government agencies and large corporations use English as their internal working language, especially at the management level.

Some states, such as New Mexico, provide bilingual legislated notices and official documents, in Spanish and English, and other commonly used languages. By 2015, there was a trend that most Americans and American residents who are of Hispanic descent speak only English in the home.[20]

As noted above, the only major exception is the U.S. Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, where Spanish is the official and most commonly used language


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span..._United_States
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:12 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Macedonian police forces committed serious abuses during their three-day operation in Ljuboten. They indiscriminately shelled the village, causing the deaths of a six-year-old boy and a sixty-six-year-old man, and contributing to the death of another elderly man who died from shock after a shell hit his home. During their Sunday house-to-house attack, police forces shot dead six civilians. One man was killed by police as he tried to close the door to his home when the police entered the yard. Two men were summarily executed by police after they were taken out of the basement in which they were hiding. Another three civilians were shot dead by police after they attempted to flee their home, which had been set afire by police shelling.

During their Sunday attack, police fired indiscriminately into the homes of civilians, at times throwing hand grenades and even firing rocket-propelled grenades into homes. One such rocket-propelled grenade was fired directly into a room filled with four men, their wives, and eight children. The Macedonian police also burned at least twenty-two houses, sheds, and stores along their route, using gasoline to set many of them aflame. In some cases, police officers robbed civilians of their valuables.

The abuse continued for the hundreds of ethnic Albanian civilians who tried to flee Ljuboten. At least three men were beaten unconscious by ethnic Macedonian vigilantes in full view of the Macedonian police, and one was shot and wounded as he attempted to flee the beating. Over one hundred men were arrested and taken to police stations in Skopje, where they were subjected to severe beatings. Atulah Qaini, aged thirty-five, was taken away alive from the village by police officers, and his badly beaten and mutilated corpse was later recovered by family members from the city morgue. Another man was beaten so severely that he had to be hospitalized. At least twenty-four men, including a thirteen-year-old boy, remain in police custody at the time of publication of this report.
Wow, such a detailed report, I'm guessing these conclusions are drawn from accounts of eyewitnesses of the incident? Albanian villagers perhaps? A very unbiased report indeed...
And how come OSCE, who this report say came at the scene 2 days after the incident had no remarks at all?

Quote:
I'm not saying no crimes were commited by the Albanians.. but unlike Ljuboten there was very little proof of who the perpetrators were so they could go to trial at the ICC..
Of course, the terrorists are not an institution where they keep detailed records of the members and their movements ,unlike the army or police who have detailed information on who were the commanders and participants in every assignment for years.
Naturally it is more easy to establish a quick investigation when it comes to the security forces since if anything happens on a particular day, the information about who was there at the time and place is easily obtainable from the records.
This is why it was known immediately who was involved in the action in Ljuboten by first and last name, but no one knows who kidnapped and tortured the Macedonians, who massacred and ambushed soldiers, who blew up the monastery, who cut the water supplies in Kumanovo etc etc.
Surely the leaders of the terrorists wouldn't acknowledge any of this taken place.
There is your discrimination for you on a silver plate.

Quote:
I dont know who he is or what he did!
Here, there is a whole thread dedicated to him on this very forum, try reading it:
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=6701

Quote:
This was the governments version of events that were changed from the initial statement made by Pendarovski

Macedonian Army soldiers were attacked near the village of Vejce, nine miles north of Tetovo. Stevo Pendarovski, the Interior Ministry spokesman, said ‘‘Eight are killed and two are injured. They were fired at with machine guns and rocket launchers. Macedonian forces responded, and the attackers withdrew. The situation is quiet now. It was an isolated incident.’’[11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tetovo
That statement was given before the proper investigation and autopsy were even finished.
Here's an exempt from the wikipedia article about the massacre:

Eight members of the Macedonian Special Forces and Police were killed in the ambush. The victims were captured by the insurgents, executed, mutilated, and burned alive.[2]
The autopsy demonstrated that only one member of the Macedonian security forces was killed in the first attack of the Albanian insurgents. The others were torturedand then set on fire


I'm directing you to the English version for the sake of objectivity, you can read the Macedonian version for more details.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vejce_massacre

Quote:
Your looking at the wrong map...That was Centar not Chair... this is Chair.. one of the most densely populated municipalities in Europe because wouldn't budge at the negotiationg table when new boundaries were discussed, there was some talk of giving Chair the Ilinden barracks site , where a new urbanized region could be built, but the city of Skopje hasn't agreed yet,

As Chair is overpopulated with no free land for any new development sites many young couples and diaspora members have been buying appartments in neighboring Butel and Gazi Baba.

This is Chair.. not what you posted, none of the sites you mentioned are in Chair..
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ch...6ab49bd50895c9
Well, I don't live in Skopje but if this is so someone should tell Google they're using the wrong map.
Even so, look at Chair, Butel, Gazi Baba on the Skopje map and you'll get the picture why they're "ghettos".
Most public buildings and landmark sites are not in these districts.
Once again - the further from the center, the less urbanization.

Quote:
Well I'm telling you that during Yugoslavia the amount of Albanians in public sector jobs was minimal,
Most either worked. in agriculture or small family run businesses throughout Yugoslavia, thats why Albanians don't historically expect to survive from government jobs and economically weren't as shocked and effected by the fall of communism, they are generally more savy in finding a way to survive and don't mind working all types of seasonal jobs abroad to get by.
Once again you're victimizing your people.
Yugosavia gave jobs in state companies to all people depending on the level of education and, of course, party hierarchy.
If you finish a metal processing school you'll work in the metalurgy, if you finish textile school you will be a textile worker in one of the many textile factories, if you finish medicine you will be a nurse/doctor etc etc. That's how it was back then, and stop convincing me your people had no jobs back then because it's becoming pathetic.

Quote:
Well how do you see ?
Do you gain any life experience and personal growth living at home with no furure living like a parasite?
There in no benefit long term.
I'd have nothing against doing no work and get paid for it mate.
I could focus my attention on the garden, my children/nephews, get some recreational hobby, do some woodwork maybe, travel etc etc.
Or even work something on-the-side for extra income. I will find a way to fill my time, don't worry about it.
I can still have a fulfilling life without having to spend 8 hours a day somewhere where my effort isn't appreciated, AND get a paycheck at the end of the month.

Quote:
They may be mandatory but they aren't..
Do you realize you just contradicted yourself with this sentence?

Quote:
This is how positive discrimination works, in 2001 Albanians were under 5% of the Police force in Western Macedonia.
Drastic measures were needed.
So employing unqualified people to fill the quota just for being Albanians is a solution?

Quote:
Amm I don't know but the USA doesn't have an official language perse, and Spanish is used widely at all levels in many southern states and their institutions.

Although the United States has no de jure official language, English is the dominant language of business, education, government, religion, media, culture, civil society, and the public sphere. Virtually all state and federal government agencies and large corporations use English as their internal working language, especially at the management level.

Some states, such as New Mexico, provide bilingual legislated notices and official documents, in Spanish and English, and other commonly used languages. By 2015, there was a trend that most Americans and American residents who are of Hispanic descent speak only English in the home.[20]

As noted above, the only major exception is the U.S. Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, where Spanish is the official and most commonly used language


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span..._United_States
Bilingual legislated notices and official documents are also issued here in municipalities where 25% of the population belongs to a minority group, so what was your point again?
And why can't Albanians do this: By 2015, there was a trend that most Americans and American residents who are of Hispanic descent speak only English in the home.?
They don't ask for guaranteed state quota like Albanians here do. They are American citizens like any other American regardless of their descent, no one takes away their right to use their mother language and they face the same problems and benefits as all other US citizens.
Your people should learn from them.
__________________
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― George Orwell

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albanian extremism, albanian language, albanian rights, constitution, human rights, macedonia, macedonian language, republic of macedonia


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