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Old 05-30-2017, 02:56 AM   #21
Aleks22
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Originally Posted by Odi Zvezdo View Post
Okay Aleks...you seem to be a man of knowledge...

Macedonia's future is in the EU....tell me...Other than the Britain (Who are leaving the EU), France, Belgium and Germany, tell me what benefit has the EU delivered to countries such as Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, etc?? Do citizens of ROM seriously think that the standard of living would increase if they are accepted into the EU? I think the majority of this forum would know what the answer is my friend.

Go and ask people that live in Lerin...people constantly remind us on since Greece entering the single currency it has gone completely backwards...life under the drachma was better and far more affordable then what it is today.....

The EU is nothing more than a cesspool of corrupt politicians who enjoy the free trip to Brussels on a quarterly basis!!! It provides no benefit whatsoever!!
We were on level footing with Bulgaria and Romania a decade ago. Today, those countries are twice as good. I understand this may be surprising to someone who lives on the other side of the world, but these are the facts. Go see for yourself when you visit for 3 weeks this summer.

I agree that the EU is a bunch of corrupt politicians. But what do you think Macedonia is? The EU has helped Bulgaria and Romania to push for things like judicial reforms that make them less corrupt. Especially Romania. This is what we need. Their wages are higher. Their unemployment is lower. Their infrastructure is better. Look at the brand new highways in Bulgaria and Romania built with EU funds, and then look at ours... Look at the brand new state of the art metro built in Sofia entirely with EU funds... It hurts me to say this but there is really no competition between us and them.

EDIT: by the way, Greece is having very difficult times, but we would be absolutely blessed to be in their situation. If we manage to get to the point where things are good enough for us to be allowed to adopt the Euro, that is a blessing. I love my identity and hate the flawed globalist ideology, but ultimately I want a better life. Without having to leave my homeland, like it seems 95% of this board has. The EU is the path that leads towards that.

EDIT 2: Oh and lastly, perhaps if we were in the EU, they would not have let our stupid politicians do all the Skopje 2014 statues (of which many are already crumbling), and instead we could have built a metro like Sofia or improved our roads. Some, anything that would have actually improved our lives. Statues don't do that.

Last edited by Aleks22; 05-30-2017 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Add a paragraph
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:59 AM   #22
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Our bright future is dependent on an identity...but go ahead, sell your arse to the lowest bidder.
This is also what I believed when I was a little child. I've grown since then. We need to be uniting with the people similar to us, not rebuking them at every opportunity we have.

We are not just some kind of identity that you people can be proud of. We are not a circus for your entertainment. We are real people who want better lives.

Last edited by Aleks22; 05-30-2017 at 03:13 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:08 AM   #23
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You seem to support this, so as a Macedonian (right?) do you agree that you and the Bulgarians are the same people?
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
You make it sound like a good thing. Does that coincide with your viewpoint?

Where have you been for the last 25 years? When exactly will the EU finally "pressure Greece" into backing down?

You also live in the diaspora, don't you? And what's with the "Macedonian" in quotation marks?
First off, no, I am not diaspora. Born in Strumica. I've lived in Canada. Now I study university in Sofia, but Skopje is where I call home. The Macedonia in quotation marks is because most people on this site are supposed patriotic Macedonians, yet have no idea what it is like to live in Macedonia. They have no idea what it feels like to see your EU neighbors objectively leaving you in the dust.

On Greece - there has been no reason for the EU to side with us over Greece the last 25 years. With things escalating between the West and Russia, and Russia having stronger ambitions in the Balkans, while Greeks are totallyy dependent on the EU, this will change.

I absolutely believe we are the same people, as I am not blinded by nationalism. This is a fact. We have different identities, true, but we have the same blood. I study in Bulgaria and it is the one country where I don't feel like a foreigner. They see us as equals. They are our brothers. They can help us join the EU. And denying this is what blinded nationalists and diaspora do, not Macedonians.

Last edited by Aleks22; 05-30-2017 at 03:25 AM. Reason: Added a sentence
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:19 AM   #24
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What the fuck is the "European way"...
The European way, or the EU way, is the opposite of the Macedonian diaspora way. It is forgetting about the conflicts of the past and instead moving towards a brighter future. It is having love for your neighbors. It is not being unreasonably and stupidly nationalistic. Who cares about what we were 2,000 years ago, lets look at ourselves NOW, and let us try to improve upon this.

Luckily the mentality in Macedonia is changing. Even just a decade ago the mentality of most Macedonians was like our diaspora. This is luckily changing. Diaspora have absolutely zero say about the direction our country should go in. As I mentioned in my previous post, we are not a circus you can look at so you can be proud of your identity. We are real people who want better lives. The nationalistic diaspora here who have the nerve to tell me that the EU has not benefited Bulgaria and Romania greatly, when I live in Macedonia and study in Bulgaria and thus can see for myself, are cringe-worthy.

Last edited by Aleks22; 05-30-2017 at 03:27 AM. Reason: Added a sentence
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:24 AM   #25
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First off, no, I am not diaspora. Born in Strumica. I've lived in Canada. Now I study university in Sofia.
You're lying, or at least not being truthful with the order of the events you've mentioned above. Continue on with this charade and I will send you packing.
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The Macedonia in quotation marks is because most people on this site are supposed patriotic Macedonians, yet have no idea what it is like to live in Macedonia.
There is least one member here who lives in Macedonia and a number of others who have lived there in the past. And in addition to those who frequently travel there, all of us have relatives there, so we understand their concerns. Don't presume you can speak like some authority on Macedonian issues and that your opinion is somehow more valid than that of others here. It's not. Coming on this forum and acting with an aggravated attitude doesn't mean people will take you more seriously.
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On Greece - there has been no reason for the EU to side with us over Greece the last 25 years. With things escalating between the West and Russia, and Russia having stronger ambitions in the Balkans, while Greeks are economic slaves to the EU, this will change.
That simple, huh? It's nice to dream.
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I absolutely believe we are the same people, as I am not blinded by nationalism. This is a fact. We have different identities, true, but we have the same blood.
I won't even bother addressing the blood part given that many people in the Balkans share similar DNA. But if we are the same people, who did we collectively descend from?
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I study in Bulgaria and it is the one country where I don't feel like a foreigner. They see us as equals.
They see Macedonian identity as a regional Bulgarian identity. Are you comfortable with that?
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:38 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
You're lying, or at least not being truthful with the order of the events you've mentioned above. Continue on with this charade and I will send you packing.

There is least one member here who lives in Macedonia and a number of others who have lived there in the past. And in addition to those who frequently travel there, all of us have relatives there, so we understand their concerns. Don't presume you can speak like some authority on Macedonian issues and that your opinion is somehow more valid than that of others here. It's not. Coming on this forum and acting with an aggravated attitude doesn't mean people will take you more seriously.

That simple, huh? It's nice to dream.

I won't even bother addressing the blood part given that many people in the Balkans share similar DNA. But if we are the same people, who did we collectively descend from?

They see Macedonian identity as a regional Bulgarian identity. Are you comfortable with that?
Okay good sir, send me packing for having a different view point. I see that this is nothing more than an echo chamber. Just know that everything I have said is truthful. And know that the contents of this forum in absolutely no way show the real attitudes of the people in today's Macedonia, luckily. A better life is more important to us than who we descended from 2,000 years ago.

Probably the only view point on this forum that coincides with the reality of Macedonia is the viewpoint on changing our name. That will never, ever be allowed to happen. It would be political suicide.

In regards to your last question, not at all. We ARE the same people, the only difference between us is what we are taught in school. Yes, they see us as one of them, and though I understand why that may bother some, I see it as a positive as it makes me feel at home here. The important thing is that their government doesn't hold this position, they were the first country to recognize our independence, they respect our independence, and they support our EU bid.

Cheers

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Old 05-30-2017, 03:50 AM   #27
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Okay good sir, send me packing for having a different view point.
Don't twist what I wrote. I said I will send you packing for lying. And you are lying. You're not posting from Bulgaria. That's a fact.
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And know that the contents of this forum in absolutely no way show the real attitudes of the people in today's Macedonia, luckily.
And your attitude does reflect the reality in Macedonia? Give me a break. You're either a Bulgar pretending to be Macedonian or belong to that insignificant few in Macedonia who have been duped into thinking they're Bulgars. In either case, you're irrelevant. And this forum covers a range of topics, not just politics. Just because we talk about history doesn't mean we're more concerned about who we were 2,000 years ago rather than the future of Macedonia.
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Probably the only view point on this forum that coincides with the reality of Macedonia is the viewpoint on changing our name. That will never, ever be allowed to happen. It would be political suicide.
You don't really seem to care anyway, so why bother even commenting on that subject? Just come out and advocate for something else, you know you want to.
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In regards to your last question, not at all.
What do you mean not at all? That they don't see the Macedonian identity as a Bulgarian regional identity? You're in denial. And you didn't answer the question as to who we all descend from if we are the same people?
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:00 AM   #28
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Aleks22.
You are just having a laugh. We all like a laugh.

I note you could not answer my very simple question about Bulgaria and Romania other than to say they are twice as good as Macedonia now. I dispute that and the onus is on you to prove it.

I could say more, but it isn't really worth it.
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Don't twist what I wrote. I said I will send you packing for lying. And you are lying. You're not posting from Bulgaria. That's a fact.

And your attitude does reflect the reality in Macedonia? Give me a break. You're either a Bulgar pretending to be Macedonian or belong to that insignificant few in Macedonia who have been duped into thinking they're Bulgars. In either case, you're irrelevant. And this forum covers a range of topics, not just politics. Just because we talk about history doesn't mean we're more concerned about who we were 2,000 years ago rather than the future of Macedonia.

You don't really seem to care anyway, so why bother even commenting on that subject? Just come out and advocate for something else, you know you want to.

What do you mean not at all? That they don't see the Macedonian identity as a Bulgarian regional identity? You're in denial. And you didn't answer the question as to who we all descend from if we are the same people?
Which lie would that be? That I am born in Strumica and live in Skopje? That the mentality in Macedonia in no way, shape or form coincides with the mentality on this forum? Because these are all true. My school year is finished and I am visiting family in Canada for the next month and a half, but will return to Skopje shortly. That is my home. I am a patriot, which is why I live in my home country and will continue living here and help it grow. I am not a nationalist diaspora who sees his homeland as some historical circus.

The first part of your second paragraph is 100% false, my attitude absolutely matches the attitude of most Macedonians in Skopje. Absolutely, 100%. Things have changed drastically in the last decade. Perhaps the Albanian threat accelerated things. The only people that don't share my views are people in the countryside and blind nationalists. And yes, I made an account here to talk about our future, which will hopefully be in the EU, but I couldn't help but comment to all this diaspora who think they know what is better for my country than someone who lives there. I realize now that was a mistake.

Yes, you are right, I don't care about our ancestors from 2,000 years ago and how great they were. I care about my country now, my friends who live in it, and having good relations with our EU friends so that we can also one day hopefully join them. All you need to do is visit the countries in the EU, and then visit Macedonia, and you will see why.

Yes, they see me as a Bulgarian, and I don't mind whatsoever. I will repeat what I said before. We are the same people, the only difference between us is what we are taught in school. Yes, they see us as one of them, and though I understand why that may bother some, I see it as a positive as it makes me feel at home here. The important thing is that their government doesn't hold this position, they were the first country to recognize our independence, they respect our independence, and they support our EU bid.

As for who we descended from, that is literally irrelevant. Ultimately we all have a common ancestor.
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:11 AM   #30
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Okay good sir, send me packing for having a different view point. I see that this is nothing more than an echo chamber. Just know that everything I have said is truthful. And know that the contents of this forum in absolutely no way show the real attitudes of the people in today's Macedonia, luckily. A better life is more important to us than who we descended from 2,000 years ago.

Probably the only view point on this forum that coincides with the reality of Macedonia is the viewpoint on changing our name. That will never, ever be allowed to happen. It would be political suicide.

In regards to your last question, not at all. They see us as one of them, and though I truly understand why that may bother some, I see it as a positive as it makes me feel at home here. The important thing is that their government doesn't hold this position, and they were the first country to recognize our independence.

Cheers
I have to agree with the little fella regarding Bulgaria and simularities. On my trips to Bulgaria, I felt like I was in a more advanced version of Macedonia. The people at all levels were so warm and friendly, even more so when we told them that we are Macedonian.. we even had one older customs lady tell us to make sure we keep our identity and language after she saw our passports and we spoke Macedonian.

The language, religion, culture, and a heck of a lot of streets named after Macedonian heroes as far as Varna.. we even ate at the Makedonska kujka in the middle of Sofia.

These people have nothing but love for us, it can't be a bad thing. That's just my opinion from personal experience. Most Bulgarians probably have Macedonian blood anyway, how many Macedonians have migrated to Bulgaria in the last 150 years?
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