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  • Pelister
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2742

    #16
    Originally posted by Napoleon View Post
    TerraNova Wrote:
    As I said before, this is direct contradition to what numerous ancient historians such who stated that both the ancient Macedonians and Greeks needed translators to communicate with each other. This "Katadesmos" tablet is nothing more then an artifact written in one of the numerous Greek dialects discovered on artifacts in ancient Macedonia thus proving that the language was foreign to the region resulting from the influence of the ancient Greek colonies and Macedonia's proximity to Greece.
    I'd be very interested to find out the provenance of this artefact. It just strikes me as strange that it appears now. I've been reading books on Greek and Macedonian artefacts for many years, and this particular artefact has only appeared recently to me, unless someone can give me some more detail about where it came from, who found it, when was it dug up, by whom, and whether we can find a paper trail to the people in Greece looking at it.

    Comment

    • TerraNova
      Banned
      • Nov 2008
      • 473

      #17
      Originally posted by Napoleon View Post
      TerraNova Wrote:



      This is not correct as the majority of the ancient Greek colonies in Macedonia lasted well into the Roman period.
      "Lasted"?
      I wrote that they were "founded" before the Macedonians were in the region.
      These lands were inhabited by Thracian tribes at the time.That's all.


      As I said before, this is direct contradition to what numerous ancient historians such who stated that both the ancient Macedonians and Greeks needed translators to communicate with each other. This "Katadesmos" tablet is nothing more then an artifact written in one of the numerous Greek dialects discovered on artifacts in ancient Macedonia thus proving that the language was foreign to the region resulting from the influence of the ancient Greek colonies and Macedonia's proximity to Greece.
      The colonies of the region were IONIAN.

      Ionian scripts were found too -you can see them in museums.
      This is a form close to DORIC,but quiet different of this of the South.

      Also it's different to Aeolic of the nearest neigbor-Thessaly,For example the adverb "opoka" is used totally absent in Aeolic.

      It's a really interesting finding,but more are needed for a conclusion.


      As for the translators supposed to be used,there are thousands of incidents where Macedonians speak directly with other Greeks.
      There is a comedy (Stratis') where an Athenian makes fun of the idioms used in Macedonian,when speaking with a Macedonian .
      (they use different -but both Greek root- words for the same fish)

      Also in Titus Livius there is an exctract saying that Macedonians,Aetolians,and Acarnanes were men of the same language.
      Last edited by TerraNova; 01-24-2009, 05:19 AM.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #18
        Originally posted by TerraNova
        I wrote that they were "founded" before the Macedonians were in the region.
        These lands were inhabited by Thracian tribes at the time.That's all.
        Macedonians were a Thracian tribe to begin with, the only Greeks in Macedonia were colonisers, the Macedonians were not colonisers, they mastered the lands of neighbouring tribes and spread their name as a result.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #19
          The people you will use to support your stance cannot even agree if Macedonian was Aeolic or Doric, of course it was neither as it was not a Greek dialect or language.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • TerraNova
            Banned
            • Nov 2008
            • 473

            #20
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Macedonians were a Thracian tribe to begin with, the only Greeks in Macedonia were colonisers, the Macedonians were not colonisers, they mastered the lands of neighbouring tribes and spread their name as a result.
            And how can you support this theory?

            Have you read about the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon in 700-650 BC and the expel of the Thracian tribes of the region?

            Thucydides and Herodotus ,as well other ancient sources record this.

            Comment

            • TerraNova
              Banned
              • Nov 2008
              • 473

              #21
              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              The people you will use to support your stance cannot even agree if Macedonian was Aeolic or Doric, of course it was neither as it was not a Greek dialect or language.
              SoM i can only speak on documents and findings.
              That;s the assumptions from what is found till now.
              Till more are uncovered ,of course i cannot be sure-That's the path of history,science and logic.

              On the other hand ,you are sure Macedonians were a thracian tribe(?)
              I don't know how you came to this conclusion-do you have any linguistic evidence that proves Macedonian language to be Thracian ?

              (you can come to the more weird conclusion that Macedonian was slavic too...but again this is not the path of science and common logic)

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #22
                TerraNova, the assumptions are INCONCLUSIVE, and the reason this is so comes down to that inaccurate starting point they are using, namely, the false assumption that ancient Macedonian may have been a 'Greek' dialect. Till more is uncovered? They have been trying to sing the same song and dance for the last 60 years and nothing, people should know and accept when they have lost.

                It is an undisputed fact that while the 'Achaeans' and allies of Homer's Troy were gathering to attack Asia Minor, the people of what would become Macedonia supported the Trojans, not the 'Achaeans'.

                It is an undisputed fact that before the Macedonians spread their name the inhabitants were called Thracians and Paeonians.

                It is an undisputed fact that the Argos Orestikon of which the Macedonian royalty derives from is Kostur in (Greek-occupied) Macedonia and not the Peloponnese.

                It is an undisputed fact that the only 'Greeks' in Macedonia are colonists.

                Macedonia and the Macedonian people are kindred with the Thracians, Paeonians and Illyrians.

                The Thracian language is related to Slavic.

                There are plenty of threads discussing these issues, how about you try and bring something worthy to the table rather than parroting the same old garbage filled with lies and fear? What are you scared of if Thracian is related to Slavic? You think that by exhibiting negativity it will discourage people from further research? You think you are capable of challenging what is posted in those threads rather than being a little pussy and attacking threads from a safe distance?

                Try reading that thread about Strabo where you made baseless accusations, addressed nothing, hid like a coward when your lies were confronted and destroyed, and then disappeared altogether as per your usual performance.

                TerraNova, enough with your empty words, lies and half-truths.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • osiris
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1969

                  #23
                  SoM i can only speak on documents and findingsQUOTE
                  really i thought you could speak from your families oral history that goes back to the mid 19th century as well.

                  terranova if the slavic invasions happened as you believe, why would decendents of greek colonists survive but not decendents of the ancinet macedonians, its illogical.

                  according to your version of the slavic migration theory . the slavs came from nth of the danube and were able in 200 years to settle half of europe, as far south as the peloponese and had such an impact on it, the very name peloponese was lost and morea was the name used by everyone. but, they still missed colonising a tiny part of macedonia where your family has lived on for thousands of years. therfore that give you the moral right to say who is and isnt able to use the name macedonia as their national identity.

                  get over your delusion and join the 21st century terranova we are who we say we are, all we claim is our birthright as the modern macedonians, and leave history as a sunject we can research and deabte civily we will all ejoy the experience better and learn more.

                  we dont want to be either greek or bulgarian. both those choices are second hand descriptions imposed on macedonians by others. all we can claim indisputadly to be is of macedonia, thats a sacred and key link, but you still dont you get it. ironically if we all changed to believing we are greeks, people like you would recast the history dice and claim us as long lost greeks and then greek macedonians would cease to exist as would the famous slavic invasion of macedonia theory.

                  why do i say such things, but terranova its a back to the future experience, the things i say were exactly the policies and propganda of greece in its struggle for the spoils of the ottoman empire in europe, macedonia. later the idea of who was greek and how far greece extend became a megali idea ,didnt it. in those heady days greeks inhabited all of the old roman empire in the east, plus calabria and sicily sorry, couldnt help that one.

                  its about respecting us as human beings able to make our choice not about documents and findings.
                  Last edited by osiris; 01-25-2009, 01:26 AM.

                  Comment

                  • TrueMacedonian
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3810

                    #24
                    Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                    And how can you support this theory?

                    Have you read about the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon in 700-650 BC and the expel of the Thracian tribes of the region?

                    Thucydides and Herodotus ,as well other ancient sources record this.

                    I would like to know how you could support the theory that you're related in any way to the ancient Hellenes?
                    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                    Comment

                    • Liberator of Makedonija
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 1595

                      #25
                      Bump in regards to discussion of the Tsakonian language.
                      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                      Comment

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