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Old 05-03-2018, 08:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin View Post
1) The present state of the Morea called Peloponesus, Bernard Randolph, an English traveler, London, 1686:

"The Albanians from Arcadia are three times more numerous than the Turks."

[/i]
Correction; it's three times more numerous than Turks and Greeks.
''... but now the Albaneses, (who are the Shep∣herds, and three times the Number, as the Turks, and Greeks which are in these parts) ....''


https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A...;view=fulltext
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
I wonder how is the following explained away...

"By the middle of the fourteenth and early fifteenth century the majority of people in the Peloponnese were Albanian-speakers."

From URLs:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk....0.80veM__OxE0
https://books.google.ca/books?id=7Ws...bXAkcQ6AEILTAB
Carlin, during 15th century many Albanians fled to Italy from Peloponnese, could have this resulted in reducing the number of Albanians in Peloponnese in significant amount?
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:55 PM   #33
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Carlin, during 15th century many Albanians fled to Italy from Peloponnese, could have this resulted in reducing the number of Albanians in Peloponnese in significant amount?
In subsequent centuries additional Albanians flooded from the north (some Muslims by then), and settled in various districts of Morea.

Albanians are described as still being masters of the Morea - who raided at will, spreading their attacks agains the Turks too. As an example, they completely wrecked Monemvasia. Andre Castellan described the upper city of Monemvasia as follows in 1797:

"a large heap of ruins. You see everywhere traces of the last war, the walls are riddled by bullets and blackened by the fire, the roads are strewn with debris from the bombs."

The Albanians profaned and burned down the church of Elkomenos, which remained 'unofficiated' during the larger part of the decade after 1770.
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
I wonder how is the following explained away...

"By the middle of the fourteenth and early fifteenth century the majority of people in the Peloponnese were Albanian-speakers."

From URLs:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bk....0.80veM__OxE0
https://books.google.ca/books?id=7Ws...bXAkcQ6AEILTAB
Well, does John Sea provide any sources or arguments for 1300-1400s?
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:57 AM   #35
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Well, does John Sea provide any sources or arguments for 1300-1400s?
He is basically interpreting N. G. L. Hammond's point of view.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:10 AM   #36
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The following comes from Page 88 of John Shea's book. It all comes from N. Hammond.



Now - why would we consider Greek-speaking Slavs as ethnic Greeks (whatever the century or region)? Are Greek-speaking Slavs any more Greeks, than say French (Creole)-speaking Haitians are ethnically French - or English-speaking Jamaicans are ethnically English/Anglo-Saxon, etc.?
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:35 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
The following comes from Page 88 of John Shea's book. It all comes from N. Hammond.

Now - why would we consider Greek-speaking Slavs as ethnic Greeks (whatever the century or region)? Are Greek-speaking Slavs any more Greeks, than say French (Creole)-speaking Haitians are ethnically French - or English-speaking Jamaicans are ethnically English/Anglo-Saxon, etc.?
Well, it depends.



Yes, I noticed (right after my post) that the source is Hammond. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before somewhere. Can anybody find Hammond's passages and arguments on Peloponnesus population?
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Old 05-05-2018, 02:04 PM   #38
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http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...p?t=17&page=44
My long post (copy-paste) is taken from Hammond's book.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:20 AM   #39
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To restore the province, settlers were encouraged to immigrate from the other Greek lands with the lure of considerable land grants, chiefly from Attica but also from other parts of Central Greece, especially the areas that suffered during the war. 2,000 Cretans, and also Catholic Chians, Venetian citizens from the Ionian Islands and even some Bulgarians answered this call. In addition, mention is made of 1,317 Muslim families that remained behind, converted to Christianity and were given lands or enterprises as concessions. As a result of these policies, the population recovered rapidly: apart from Mani, the Venetian registers record 97,118 inhabitants in 1691, 116,000 a year later and 176,844 by 1700. Due to the relative privileges granted the urban population, the period was also marked by an influx of the agrarian population to the cities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Morea
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
In subsequent centuries additional Albanians flooded from the north (some Muslims by then), and settled in various districts of Morea.

Albanians are described as still being masters of the Morea - who raided at will, spreading their attacks agains the Turks too. As an example, they completely wrecked Monemvasia. Andre Castellan described the upper city of Monemvasia as follows in 1797:

"a large heap of ruins. You see everywhere traces of the last war, the walls are riddled by bullets and blackened by the fire, the roads are strewn with debris from the bombs."

The Albanians profaned and burned down the church of Elkomenos, which remained 'unofficiated' during the larger part of the decade after 1770.
Muslim Albanians were expelled or killed after the revolution. I am talking about the Orthodox Christians who were assimilated by the Greek speakers.
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