The Blue-Macedonian Flag

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  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    #16
    Originally posted by Nikolaj View Post
    Correct

    The Wikipedia page i'm reading it off is from where they wrote late 1980's:



    The reference to the statement:

    <ref name="Flag Encyclopedia">{{cite book |last= Znamierowski |first= Alfred |title=The World Encyclopedia of Flags |publisher= Anness Publishings |year= 2010 |isbn= 978-1-84476-895-0}}</ref>

    I'm trying to find the PDF version of this, I don't think it's worth buying for such a small thing, but i'm really curious to see if it was a bullshit call and not even written in that Encyclopedia. I may buy it in my next batch of books I buy from Booktopia though considering it's only $25 but that may be a while away as I only recently purchased from them.
    Late 1980s doesn't seem correct. Don't spend money on the book.

    The symbol was known and had various uses (e.g. commercial ones). Its' (alleged) historical importance was more or less known. Its' official and political use was probably enhanced right after you adopted (or even right before that) and because you adopted it. The idea was "They're trying to steal something that belongs to us".

    I read you adopted the Vergina Sun/Star as official flag in August 24, 1992. Six months ago, February 14, 1992 was the great rally of Thessaloniki, with about 1 million people (everybody was there except for me). I can see the symbol but not widely used in this video, especially as a flag.

    Συλλαλητήριο για το Μακεδονικό 1992 (Μητροπολίτης *αντελεήμων Β&#39 - YouTube

    Last edited by Amphipolis; 10-30-2014, 02:54 PM.

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #17
      They simply copy catted ROM after all what else could they go on.THeir original claim was it was the star of verginar.The symbol is not just a star.Its the macedonian sun.There is a difference.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Nikolaj
        Member
        • Aug 2014
        • 389

        #18
        Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
        Late 1980s doesn't seem correct. Don't spend money on the book.

        The symbol was known and had various uses (e.g. commercial ones). Its' (alleged) historical importance was more or less known. Its' official and political use was probably enhanced right after you adopted (or even right before that) and because you adopted it. The idea was "They're trying to steal something that belongs to us".

        I read you adopted the Vergina Sun/Star as official flag in August 24, 1992. Six months ago, February 14, 1992 was the great rally of Thessaloniki, with about 1 million people (everybody was there except for me). I can see the symbol but not widely used in this video, especially as a flag.

        Interesting, Amphipolis mind telling me where you got that photo? I'm curious to see more about the actual rally but my google-image search query is coming up with hotels

        But yes, without a doubt considering I did not see a single blue-variant of the flag, it'd be unrealistic to believe late 1980's. The use of the symbol is what i'll be more interested in seeing at this point.

        Comment

        • Dejan
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 589

          #19
          I once had a conversation about this blue flag with a fellow Macedonian back in the day. I mentioned how it was probably created by the greeks in retaliation to our flag. He said, "How do you know it wasn't created by the Macedonians in Greece, to show us that they still exist, and they still have a Macedonian consciousness, and we shouldn't forget about them?". I didn't think about it like that.

          No matter what colour it is, it's still Macedonian.

          The greeks that I know don't physically associate with the Macedonian sun flag. It is as if it is foreign to them. It is.
          You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

          A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

          Comment

          • Amphipolis
            Banned
            • Aug 2014
            • 1328

            #20
            Originally posted by Nikolaj View Post
            Interesting, Amphipolis mind telling me where you got that photo? I'm curious to see more about the actual rally but my google-image search query is coming up with hotels
            The picture is from this link (events at February 14th)

            Comment

            • VMRO
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1462

              #21
              VMRO-DPMNE was using the kutlesh flag since it's inception from 1990.

              Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

              Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

              Comment

              • Macedonian_Nationalist
                Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 407

                #22
                We started using it in Australia after the discovery of the Vergina tomb. Greeks didn't use it until ROM made it the official flag

                Comment

                • Momce Makedonce
                  Member
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 562

                  #23
                  Late 80`s. The flag can be seen toward the start of the video.

                  SYDNEY OLYMPIC V PRESTON FANS BRAWLING - YouTube
                  "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

                  Comment

                  • Nikolaj
                    Member
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 389

                    #24
                    I think it's safe to conclude that we were actually the ones using it in the late 1980's
                    Last edited by Nikolaj; 10-31-2014, 07:25 PM.

                    Comment

                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      #25
                      /.,The sun flag was used in rom territory long time ago.It was in churches,some of you remember an icon of mother and child with sun symbol.
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • Stojacanec
                        Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 809

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
                        Late 80`s. The flag can be seen toward the start of the video.

                        SYDNEY OLYMPIC V PRESTON FANS BRAWLING - YouTube

                        I remember these days. It was clear to see from this video what frame of mind the greeks were in before Macedonian independence in the late 80s.

                        The greeks re-christened themselves with the blue flag after the fact. Now they hold it up with so much pride.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          #27
                          That is right the blue flag was in response to macedonia's version.
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • Amphipolis
                            Banned
                            • Aug 2014
                            • 1328

                            #28
                            Can't you define the exact year of this football game?

                            An early key incident I can remember was the protests when Greek President Christos Sartzetakis (1985-1990) visited Australia. I searched and found this happened in 1988 for the 200 years anniversary of Australia. That incident was considered rather awakening in Greece as far as I can remember.

                            This is the best I could find. It paints… a heroic picture of Sartzetakis (Google translation)

                            SARTZETAKIS: 24 YEARS AFTER THE TRIP TO AUSTRALIA
                            Written by Michael Rampidis

                            Anyone have Greece in their heart, have a duty to remember, to know and be proud of the attitude of the President of the Greek Republic Mr. Christos Sartzetakis 1988 on his trip to Australia.

                            The Australian state celebrated the 200th anniversary of the foundation and Greece was represented by President of the Republic Ch. Sartzetakis. Foreign Minister of the country was Mr. Karolos Papoulias. Alongside the Ministry Of Culture organized the Museum Victoria in Melbourne report on the ''Ancient Macedonia'' and presentation of archaeological finds from Macedonia. The exhibition took place from 11.24.1988 Mr. Sartzetakis presence of the Australian Prime Minister, Mr P. Hawk and many officials.

                            Melbourne is the third (3rd) largest city in the Greek population. It has 300,000 thousand. Greeks from 700,000 thousand. Located in Australia. Compared with the corresponding Greek colony Skopje is a small number.

                            The report for Macedonia caused the community of (historically inaccurate) Skopje who gathered in front of the Museum and threatening moods attempted to thwart the event. It is noteworthy that the Greek Consulate left uncovered the President and the action of local authorities and the Mounted Police were sluggish and inefficient. Nor was any information and call the Greeks of Melbourne to attend, other than those they knew.

                            The intrepidity, the Greek soul, the beliefs of the man, representing Greece, illustrate only partially the children, personality and greatness of President Sartzetakis:
                            At a luncheon in honor of the Prime Minister Mr. P. Koch on 23/11/1988 in Canberra asked Mr. Sartzetakis be deleted from the text of the Speech of references to Macedonia. The President of the Greek Republic categorically denied any cut and apologies to Australians that if they insist on unethical censorship will immediately terminate the visit and return to Greece. Result: Replying delivered intact. The same thing happened the next day (11.24.1988) at the inauguration of the exhibition when the Australians demanded deletion of historical references from the President's speech, but his answer was the same speech delivered without cuts.

                            After the opening ceremony, because of threatening moods of collected Skopje asked Mr. Sartzetakis, for security reasons, to get out the back door of the Museum of Victoria. The President rejected the unquestioned offensive answering proposal: '' I will not go as burglar 'and departed normally from the main entrance. Indeed caused by the suspended '' UP '' Skopje who wrote: '' Sartzetakis your mother was not Greek but Makedonissa '' taking the microphone replied: '' My mother was Greek because he was Makedonissa '. The afternoon of the same day the governor of Victoria Mc Caughey's hosted a gala dinner at a hotel in Melbourne. No. of Skopje and waited there the President in a bad mood, which forced the authorities to ask the President to enter by next entrance. The answer of Mr. Sartzetakis was: <> and entered through the main entrance where he received and the sequence of attack Skopje with sticks, stones and other objects, with consequent injury police sequencing.

                            The reason I gave the President at the opening of the exhibition in Australia, about their thoughts and content, character hired the nation to the exclusion of the public.

                            The comparison with subsequent presidents political democracy, that with closed eyes sign despicable laws, such Liability Ministers, the main shareholder, all memoranda destructive, undemocratic legislative acts and countless others, is inevitably linked to the actions of Mr. Sartzetakis that reflected in statements on 06.30.1998 which inter alia states: “ several times irnithin signing unconstitutional ordinances or legislative acts by the wording of lawfulness and constitutional. This is also my aplin comply with it in the Constitution and not the athetisin given my oath of the exact observance of”
                            Mr. Sartzetakis brighten the office of President of the Greek Republic, despite its integrity and multifaceted contribution of the corporatist conspiracy majority of policies prevented the re-election, as any non-political, to have statues-nainaikous (Costi & Charles ) at the Herod Atticus .........

                            Last edited by Amphipolis; 11-03-2014, 09:46 AM.

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #29
                              It would have been better for the president not to show up as he inflamed relations of greeks and macedonians in australia.her was burning of churches etc.One thing that proved that the presidents political agenda of macedonia is greece.I remember that reference when the macedonian artifacys were being shown in 1988.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

                              • George S.
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 10116

                                #30
                                One of mu greek nrighbours suggested the blue
                                Flag is the background color of the greek flag.
                                He says it was decided upon on the dpur of the moment.back in 1988 by the then greek govt.
                                It was a counter attack on rom using the red flag.
                                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                                GOTSE DELCEV

                                Comment

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