The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    how about the xmas is celebrated on the 25 december & not january 7. by the greeks.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      If you think the current inhabitants of Crete are of "pure ancient Hellenic" origin, think again.

      Source - "The Making of the Cretan Landscape", By Oliver Rackham, Jennifer Alice Moody.

      On page 88 we read as follows:

      "Cretans are descended, to varying degrees, from Albanians, Argives, Armenians, Bulgars, Dorians, Eteocretans, French, Germans, Hebrews, Minoans, Negroes, Pelasgians, Romans, Saracens, Serbs, Spaniards, Tartars, Turks, Venetians, and Vlachs. Crete is a fine example of how the distinctive culture and identity of a land do not depend on its people having any specific origin."

      Please see attached.
      Attached Files

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      • Onur
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 2389

        Originally posted by Carlin View Post
        If you think the current inhabitants of Crete are of "pure ancient Hellenic" origin, think again.
        Good find Carlin and i can say that we can extend this mixture of peoples phenomenon to all the aegean and mediterranean islands like Cyprus, Rhodes and all the others.

        For example, not many people remembers today but in fact, the island of Cyprus has been ruled by the Arabs from 650s to 1000 AD. They occupied it during whole islamic expansion era. As you know, they were also ruling in Spain from 700s to 1500 AD, pretty much sharing the control of whole mediterranean with eastern Romans and Latins but always under the conflicts, constantly changing rulers.

        All these conflicts ended with Ottoman control and thats exactly when the hellenisation of the islanders begun. So, Istanbul patriarch knew what he was doing when he personally joined all the campaigns for mediterranean islands in 1500s.
        Last edited by Onur; 06-10-2012, 06:18 PM.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          I already posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating again.

          Cyprus: historical and descriptive. From the earliest times to the present day; Franz von Löher (W.H. Allen, 1878).

          Pages 84, 85:
          "...those in the open country and on the sea coast are descended from a mixed race of Italians, Syrians, and Negroes. In the more frequented parts of the island, traces of successive races were rapidly swept away..."

          FYI:
          - The Emirate of Crete was a Muslim state that existed on the Mediterranean island of Crete from the late 820s to the Byzantine reconquest of the island in 961.
          - Crete was conquered by a group of Andalusian exiles, who landed on the island in ca. 824 or in 827/828 and quickly established an independent state there.

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            Let's not forget about the historical presence of Armenians in Cyprus. Many Greek Cypriots are in fact of Armenian descent (the process of hellenization started only in the 19th century).

            Source: The Armenian Kingdom in Cilicia During the Crusades, By Jacob G. Ghazarian. See Attached.

            Page 133: "...there must have been a large Armenian community in Cyprus in the 12th century. Furthermore, the entire population of an area in Cilician Armenia known as Tell Hamdun was transplanted to Cyprus by the island's Byzantine governor John Comnenus.."



            Mass Armenian migration under the Byzantine Empire

            After the 395 AD partition of the Roman Empire into halves, Cilicia became incorporated into the Eastern Roman Empire, also called the Byzantine Empire. In the sixth century AD, Armenian families relocated to Byzantine territories. Many served in the Byzantine army as soldiers or as generals, and rose to prominent imperial positions.[10]

            Situation in the Armenian Highland during the Seljuk Empire.

            Cilicia fell to Arab invasions in the seventh century and was entirely incorporated into the Rashidun Caliphate.[9] However, the Caliphate failed to gain a permanent foothold in Anatolia, as Cilicia was reconquered in the year 965 by Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus II Phocas. The Caliphate's occupation of Cilicia and of other areas in Asia Minor led many Armenians to seek refuge and protection further west in the Byzantine Empire, which created demographic imbalances in the region.[9] In order to better protect their eastern territories after their reconquest, the Byzantines resorted largely to a policy of mass transfer and relocation of native populations within the Empire's borders.[9] Nicephorus thus expelled the Muslims living in Cilicia, and encouraged Christians from Syria and Armenia to settle in the region. Emperor Basil II (976–1025) tried to expand into Armenian Vaspurakan in the east and Arab-held Syria towards the south. As a result of the Byzantine military campaigns, the Armenians spread into Cappadocia, and eastward from Cilicia into the mountainous areas of northern Syria and Mesopotamia.[11]

            Dispersion of the Armenian population of Cilicia

            Although the Mamluks had taken over Cilicia, they were unable to hold it. Turkic tribes settled there, leading to the conquest of Cilicia led by Timur. As a result, 30,000 wealthy Armenians left Cilicia and settled in Cyprus, still ruled by the Lusignan dynasty until 1489.[34]



            30,000 people is such a massive number that it boggles the mind. As a reminder, Cyprus had approximately 100,000 to 150,000 inhabitants in the early to mid 19th century (of which Turks were roughly 30%).

            Modern Cypriot Greeks are of mixed and diverse ethnic origins.
            Attached Files

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            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              Something I think this topic could us:


              Last edited by TrueMacedonian; 11-25-2012, 06:54 PM.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • makedonche
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2008
                • 3242

                TM
                I like it...especially the last paragraph!
                On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                Comment

                • TrueMacedonian
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3810

                  Originally posted by makedonche View Post
                  TM
                  I like it...especially the last paragraph!
                  Thanks Makedonche. I have a ton of material like the one above.







                  Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                  Comment

                  • Onur
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 2389

                    I can even see the teardrops on these pages.

                    Literally 100s of philhellenes from western Europe traveled all around Greece after 1821 to find a Greek in Greece but their disappointments are beyond words because of the people they saw in Greece comparing to their ancient Greece which was fantasized in their minds. They managed to create a Greek nation tough, so it was such a accomplishment at start but we see the result of it today, a nation which gone bankrupt 5-6 times in it`s relatively short history and constantly on life support from western Europe.
                    Last edited by Onur; 06-28-2012, 08:59 AM.

                    Comment

                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      THey try to live of the myths & legends.If they can't acknowledge of who they are.Then how can they acknowledge us macedonians.These finds are like gems of music when they mention that macedonians & greeks were not the same.
                      Last edited by George S.; 06-28-2012, 09:27 AM. Reason: ed
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        Is Antonis Samaras of Vlach origin?

                        Families of Vlachs from Samarina: Avelas, Agorogiannis, Vrazitikos, Gerasis, Gabetas, Gravanis, Ligouras, Lioupas, Samaras, Sarmaniotis, Stimoniaris, Tsaknakis.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          Travels in Greece and Russia
                          By Bayard Taylor - G.P. Putnam, 1871




                          PREFACE.
                          Owing to the pressure of other literary labors, this volume has been too rapidly prepared for the press, to allow me to add a special chapter on the Ethnology of Greece, as I had originally designed. I can only record my complete conviction of the truth of the views entertained by Fallmerayer, that the modern Greeks are a mongrel race, in which the Slavic element is predominant, and that the pure Hellenic blood is to found only in a few localities.

                          Page 262:
                          I have already said, and I repeat it, that not one-fifth of the present population can with justice be called Greeks. The remainder are Slavonians, Albanians, Turks, with a slight infusion of Venetian blood. Only in Maina, on the slopes of Parnassus, and in parts of Doris, did I find the ancient type in any considerable amount. In the war, the Albanian blood - the Suliotes, Hydriotes, and Spetziotes - achieved the greatest distinction.



                          Travelers and scholars in the 19th century clearly "confused" Vlachs for Greeks, Albanians for certain Vlach tribes, etc. For example, Bayard Taylor states that he found the "ancient type" only in Maina, on the slopes of Parnassus, and in Doris: regions held by Vlachs as per other Western travelers and other documents (some considered Maina/Mainiotes to be of Slavonian and Albanian origin). It's also interesting that Bayard Taylor didn't "find" Vlachs at all, only Greeks, Slavonians, Albanians, Turks, Venetians - which only proves that Greeks are Vlachs (or at best Greek-speaking Vlachs, Albanians, Slavs). I am reminded of the 19th century French traveler Cousinery; Taylor never "found" Vlachs, but Cousinery makes mention of Vlach-speakers in Argos, Peloponnesus. The London Quarterly Review, back in 1895, also found "Wallachians to be numerous in the Peloponnesus".

                          Whatever the confusion and case may be, the myth of Hellenic ethnic or national continuity can be swept away in a great tidal wave.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            A noteworthy remark about "Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs" by the President of National Council of Education in Greece.





                            Professor Thanos Veremis, President of Greece's National Council of Education and founding member of the influential think-tank Hellenic Foundation for Defence and Foreign Policy (better known by its Greek acronym, ELIAMEP) made the following statement:

                            "Unfortunately, we (Greeks) are deeply conservative as a society. This (ethnic) homogeneity has been harmful (to us). The situation during the 19th century was different. It was rather fortunate that at that time Koraes and others had the inspiration to connect us with Ancient Hellas (an undertaking) which became the main (pre)occupation of the newly born State. In those days, there were Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs. All of them had to become (part of) one (national body). And so they became. But this is not to say that in this day and age (we/they) should be under the illusion that (we/they) are descendants of Pericles. This (assimilating process of ethnic/national homogenization) might have been helpful before -even though we could not avoid a civil war- but it does not help us nowadays. Today we are not alone. We are surrounded by many neighbors. The (Greek) society must adapt (?to new realities) instead of remaining insular and introvert."

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              Albanians in Thessaly, Euboea, Andros and various other islands.


                              The earliest evidence for descent Albanians in Thessaly is a letter from Marino Sanudo, written in 1325 and referred to the Albanians, Vlachs who displaced them from Thessaly. Another testimony documents tyrant of Fener (Thessaly) dated 1342. From what writes Katakouzinos coming out, that the first Albanians settled in the mountains of Thessaly, came around in 1315. (See Jn. Chr. Poole: "The Albanians epoikisis at Corinth," page 14).


                              Within 30 years the Albanians, who came and settled in Thessaly,
                              not only multiply much, but with hard work, they became sought after. Hermit was unpretending and wages. So it offered almost free work bosses - landowners.

                              In Thessaly, in these years, the Vlachs were the majority of the population. However, when the Albanians increase, began to displace the plain of Thessaly Vlachs. Yet we must have into account, that the Venetians, who held then Pteleos (Ftelio) in the southeastern part of Thessaly, were pleased by the Albanian migration, because the Albanians served as a prison of eastern Thessaly by the Catalan raids, which was established in Salona (Amfissa). [" Except not these pretenders of varying heritage of Angels (continent) enafanisthisan then the first in the plain of Thessaly and large crowds of Albanian immigrants apotelesanton neon and thriving element of this population. Albanians edioun whole activity of the outdoor place and because meth brought themselves wives, the number was increased rapidly and began antikathistanontes Vlachs, oitines until that time have received the maximum number of egkatoikon of Thessaly, itis of them had called Megalovlachia. And the Venetians (Pteleos him), Efron, that provide migration of Albanian This was the great gain, that by this apischolounto the Catalans so to ifkairoun to attack against the neighbors. "Miller - brilliant" The Franks in Greece » , v. A, 354.]

                              Both of the Vlachs, as well as by the Arvanites are distinguished Karagounides of Thessaly, whose language contains Latin, Romanian and Arvanitic elements. From old was pronounced Albanian element in Dacia (Romania at present about) who homing and then promoted to Thessaly. This race, which is miscegenation Albanians and Romanians are probably the Karagounides. The Alvanoroumanoi is also known as Arvanitovlachs.


                              The Venetians brought many Albanians in Euboea, where some points were devastated by plague. Ceded to them to cultivate fallow provided to keep horses and ranked them by the young in the army and defend your country from Evia listopeirates and other enemies. 1363 (June 8), the Venetian Senate finds that " the Negroponte (the city) and the entire island (Evia) have colonized and income taxes are too high "; (see Thiriet, Regestes, I, pp. . 105, No. 408). From Evia Albanians immigrated to Andros and other islands.

                              Last edited by Carlin; 08-25-2012, 07:39 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                                A noteworthy remark about "Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs" by the President of National Council of Education in Greece.
                                I wonder if he was sentenced to death by firing squad for pointing out some home truths!
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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