The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

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  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    What is the title of this article and would you be able to provide source/link? Thanks.
    I found this on an Albanian forum the post were written as early as 2003, for more information you can find in the book of the author mentioned above.
    Last edited by tchaiku; 03-16-2017, 09:09 AM.

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      Thanks.




      Quote from Konstantinos Koumas (1777-1836), himself probably of Vlach extraction:

      If the extraordinary hero of Macedonia succeeded in spreading the Greek language throughout the whole of the East, even as far as India, in a period of only ten years, it scarcely puts a strain on our credulity to imagine that the Romans might have accomplished the same thing! Indeed, it seems but perfectly natural that over eight centuries the Latin language should also have taken root in precisely those places where Latin colonies were planted - from England to the Euphrates and from the Elbe to the deserts of Africa. For almost six centuries before the fall of Rome, the whole of what is now European Turkey was filled with Roman armies, Roman prefects, Roman lords and magnates. The result of such continuous contact between the Romans and their subject peoples was that the whole peoples like the Macedonians, Thessalians, and Greeks not only learned the language of their masters but in many cases completely forgot their own mother tongue.

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      • tchaiku
        Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 786

        Some conclusion from earlier posts in here:
        -The Vlachs-Greeks were speaking the Greek lanaguage of Byzantine Empire (Romania) bilingualy with their native language.

        - They migrated later than Albanians.

        From Pindos mountains.

        -It is possible that they migrated in Epirus after the Slavs seeing the slavic toponyms.
        Last edited by tchaiku; 03-18-2017, 11:50 AM.

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        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332



          .... Fanis Michalopoulos has given the answer, who, referring to the visit of Cosmas of Aetolia to Aspropotamos and Agrafa, stresses that "the language here (was) Vlach in most villages"

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          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            - Thessaly used to be called 'Great Vlachia' or 'Megali Vlachia', with the capital Larissa.
            - The Chronicle of Epirus refers to 'Great Vlachia' as 'Greco-Vlachia'.
            - Can provide detailed translation upon request.














            Last edited by Carlin; 03-19-2017, 11:17 PM.

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            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332






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              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                1) The English Folk-Play, E. K. Chambers.

                Page 229:

                "In Epirus, where the inhabitants are mainly Hellenized Vlachs, there is a spring revival ceremony without a combat."

                The folk play holds a unique place in English history and has a fascinating history all of its own. This is a wonderful guide for anybody with an interest in this ancient form of performance, with step by step instructions for anybody wishing to recreate these beautiful plays.




                2) Euboea or Evia

                "The ethnic Greek population is descended from Arvanites and Vlachs, who have lived in Euboea since the early Middle Ages."

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                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  This Greek article talks about the large waves of migrations of Vlachs to Asia Minor. There were mass migrations of Epirote Vlach settlements which began in the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century.

                  Μια από τις μεγαλύτερες πληθυσμιακές μετακινήσεις που συνέβη στον Ελλαδικό χώρο ήταν η μαζική μετανάστευση βλάχικων οικισμών της Ηπείρου η οποία ξεκίνησε τον
                  Last edited by Carlin; 04-01-2017, 10:09 PM.

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                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    Христос (Кристе) Дагович = Хаджи Христо Българинът = Χατζηχρήστος Βούλγαρης

                    Date of birth: 1783.

                    Христос (Кристе) Дагович was a revolutionary, commander during the Greek War of Independence (1821 – 1832), who thanks to his achievements and contributions for the independence and freedom of Greece received a rank of General of Greek army, and later on actively participated in building Greece.

                    According to testimonies, he was leading a unit of 'Bulgarians' during the war. "This squad carried huge proven exploits, one of which is the notorious feat in Dervenaki (Дервенакија) on 26 and 27 July 1822" wrote a Greek historian. He was accepted warmly by the leaders of the uprising Theodoros Kolokotoronis and Alexander Ypsilanti.




                    Битка кај Дервенакија
                    Last edited by Carlin; 04-01-2017, 11:22 PM.

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                    • Amphipolis
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 1328

                      Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                      This Greek article talks about the large waves of migrations of Vlachs to Asia Minor. There were mass migrations of Epirote Vlach settlements which began in the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century.
                      Actually, if one reads it he realizes that:

                      (a) This is not an article. It's a note by a theology student in a free forum.

                      (b) Unfortunately, the only large thing there, is the reference of Vlachs and Asia Minor in the title, not in the content of the text.

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                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                        Actually, if one reads it he realizes that:

                        (a) This is not an article. It's a note by a theology student in a free forum.

                        (b) Unfortunately, the only large thing there, is the reference of Vlachs and Asia Minor in the title, not in the content of the text.
                        Google Translation -

                        Transportation Vlachs in Asia Minor

                        Manolis Kontosteliou

                        One of the largest population movements happened in Greece was the mass migration of Epirus Vlach settlements which began the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century. Migratory waves initially focused mainly on the Danube and then the Ottoman hinterland.

                        The main reasons that prompted the residents of Epirus in search of a better life were:

                        a) The revolutionary movements of 1600 and 1611 with the participation of Christians in Epirus and Thessaly in response to the call of Bishop Dionysios the Philosopher

                        b) The gradual limitation of the number of villages falling under privileged membership status

                        c) The overpopulation of mountain communities and

                        d) unknown factors like frequent epidemics and natural disasters.

                        ... seek to examine the largely unknown relocation Vlachs in Asia Minor, ..... references and researchers on the topic.

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                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          Historical Documents: Albanians (and other peoples) in various Greek Islands.

                          Presence of Albanians located in the northeastern Aegean islands (Samos, Psara) and some islands of the Cyclades (Andros, Ios, Kea, Kythnos). Just a few random examples (Google Translation):

                          Andros:

                          "The inhabitants are estimated at 6000. There is an east coast town and 60 villages. Highlights are the sandpit and the Arna, inhabited by Arvanites, one thousand two hundred souls." From the diary of the French traveler Thevenot (1655). The Albanian settlement on Andros became Frankish in the first quarter of the 15th century. Second settlement was around the late 15th century."

                          The vicar general of Greece in 1828 wrote: "850 families in the northwestern part of Andros with Albanian dialect and customs." (AF 20, 21 March 1828, page 83).

                          Ios:

                          "Throughout the island there is only a small town on a hillside. The inhabitants are ethnic Albanians ...." (Francois Richard, 1650).

                          Samos:

                          Among the settlers of Samos included many Albanians. Albanians Samos reported including one French missionarios which an anonymous report in the early 18 th century, he notes, that lived mostly in the mountains of the island, engaged in farming. (LA Martin: «Lettres edifiantes et curieuses concernan lAsie, lAfrique et lAmerique avec quelques relations nouvelles des missions et des notes geographiques et historiques», Vol. 1, Paris, pp. 131, Paris, 1838. C Guerin, who came into the middle of the next century, the island, notes that residents Arvanites although they spoke good Greek, preserved but some of their own words).

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                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Βλαχοχώρια της Εύβοιας, τόσο στην κεντρική και στη βόρεια Εύβοια, όσο και στην περιοχή Αλιβερίου-Κύμης, αποβλαχισμένα στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα.

                            Vlach settlements in Euboea, both in the central and northern Euboea and in Kymi-Aliveri*, lost the (Vlach) language in the early 19th century.

                            * - Kymi-Aliveri

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                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              In 1204 the Franks of the Fourth Crusade and the Venetians sacked Constantinople and began to divide up the provinces of the Byzantine Empire among themselves. A period of chaos ensued, during which several small principalities were established in the southwest Balkans. The only one which upheld the Greek tradition was that of the Angeli. the rulers of Epirus from 1206 to 1260, and they had to contend with the Albanian principality of Demetrios and Ghin, the Serbian principality of the Nemanja and Uros families, the kingdom of Thessalonica, and the rival Byzantine principality of Nicaea, quite apart from raids delivered from the west on the coast of Epirus. It was in this period that the flow of immigrants from the northwestern area began . It became a flood in the fourteenth century. They went as mercenaries, raiders and migrants. The great majority of them were speakers of Albanian, but others joined the movement. When they wanted to leave Thessaly and go elsewhere, many others appeared with their wives and children ("multicum uxoribus et filiis") and their combined forces proceeded to wreck other parts of Thessaly. John Cantacuzenus 1.495 described their raids on the west side of the peninsula in 1335: "The Albanoi who inhabit the area of Balagrita [Berat] and Kanina [inland of Valona], being adaptable to change and by nature revolutionary, ravaged and plundered … and oppressed the towns there with their brigandage and open raids".
                              The Byzantine rulers had recourse to two methods of treating these raiders The Emperor Andronicus III gave land to 12,000 Vlach-speaking raiders who submitted to him in Thessaly. ‘The Great Domestic', John Cantacuzenus, carried out a campaign against the Albanian-speaking tribes in 1335. "As the Albanians inhabited great mountain ranges which were difficult of access and had many retreats and hiding-places, they could not easily be injured by the cavalry." For this reason, light armed infantry and archers were recruited in Asia and took part in the campaign (Cantacuzenus 1.495). Even so the Albanians were not destroyed, for they withdrew into the mountains and beat off their attackers from above. However, the Emperor advanced from Thessaly to Dyrrachium and took spoil to the amount of 300,000 cattle, 5,000 horses and 1,200,000 sheep. But the Albanian raids continued and Acarnania was laid waste, in 1341 the Emperor attacked the offending Albanians "around Pogoniane and Libisda" (Lidizda), i.e. in the central part of northern Epirus; (20) and then in 1355 he campaigned from Thessaly as far south as Aetolia and Acarnania and was killed in action (Cantacuzenus 3.319). These campaigns did not stop the flood. Albanians were serving as mercenaries in the Peloponnese c. 1350, and they and their families were given land there to cultivate.
                              In 1358 the Albanians overran Epirus, Acarnania and Aetolia, and established two principalities under their leaders, John Spatas (shpate in Albanian meaning a sword) and Peter Leosas (lios in Albanian meaning a pockmark), Naupactus fell into their control in 1378. The cities which held out against them, especially loannina and Arta, were ravaged by a series of plagues, and Thomas, the Serbian Despot of loannina, saved himself at first by making marriage alliances with the two Albanian leaders. In the Greek account of the Albanian advance under Peter Leosas we learn that he was accompanied by "Mazarakii and Malakasei of his own race" (Epeirotica 2.220; cf. 222 f.), (21) While Mazaraki is in central Epirus by the river Kalamas, Malakasa is the coastal plain of central Albania farther north and the words ‘of his own race' were used to distinguish the Albanian-speaking Malakasaei from the Vlach-speaking Malakasii. It is clear that Thomas feared the Albanians above all. Whereas he mutilated the Bulgars and the Vlachs, he allowed most of his Albanian prisoners to be ransomed. Atrocities were committed no doubt by both sides, and Thomas came to be called Albanitoktonos (Albanian-killer; Epeirotica 2.225). In 1380 Thomas brought in the Turks as allies and passed to the offensive, but he did not advance farther than the basin of the upper Kalamas, where he took Vela (by Vrondismeni), Boursina (Vrousina), and Kretzounista (Dhespotikon) (21). The Albanians and in particular the Mazarakii of the Kalamas valley held firm against him. In 1385 he was assassinated by some of his own bodyguards (Epeirotica 2.230).
                              Other bands of Albanians and Vlachs invaded the Catalan principality of Boeotia and Attica, and a great many Albanians settled there as peasant-farmers in 1368 and later years. Around the end of that century a migrating group of 10,000 Albanians with their families and their animals came from pastures in central Greece to the Isthmus of Corinth and sought entry to the Peloponnese. This was granted by Theodore, who settled them within his own DOMAINS, where he used them as tough soldiers and "expert cultivators" (Manuel II, Funeral Speech, p. 40). Albanians and others were invited in 1402 to settle on uncultivated but cultivable lands in Euboea, if they were willing to serve as soldiers in defence of the island and work the soil. The proclamation of the Venetian rulers was extended to "quilibet Albanensis vel alia gens qui non sint no&tri subditi, qui cum equis volent venire et venient ad habitandum’ (23). By the middle of the fifteenth century the Albanians in the Peloponnese were so numerous that they tried to seize control, led first by one Peter the Lame, and then by a Greek, a member of the Cantacuzenus family, but their attempt failed.
                              The penetration of the Greek mainland which we have described occurred during the hundred or more years after 1325. The opportunity arose through the decline and disruption of the Byzantine Empire and the wars which followed between the various small principalities of Greeks, Serbs, Catalans, Venetians and others. One of the pressures which set the Albanians and others in motion came from the expanding power of the Serbs which reached its peak under the rule of Stephen Dusan (1331-1355), who subjugated Epirus and Acarnania. A contributory factor seems to have been overpopulation among the Albanians (24) - always a prolific people and underpopulation in mainland Greece as a result of internal collapse and foreign intervention. The strongest single group of invaders was that of the Vlachs which pressed down into Thessaly and opened the way there for the Albanians. But the most numerous by far were the Albanian-speakers, and their main line of invasion and penetration was down the western side of northern and central Greece.
                              Once in possession of most of north-western Greece, the Albanians opened the way for other immigrants. Offshoots of Albanians and Vlachs entered Boeotia, Attica and Euboea, having probably come from summer pastures on Mt Parnassus and from southern Aetolia; and other groups of Albanians forced an entry or gained an invitation of entry into the Peloponnese, sometimes crossing over the western part of the Gulf of Corinth and sometimes coming to the Isthmus of Corinth. When 10,000 Albanians came to the Isthmus of Corinth, they brought not only their families but also their flocks of animals. The Albanians in the Peloponnese took their herds in the winter to the coastal plain of Elis, “which was open to the sun, near the sea, had good grazing and was deserted by men (i.e. by the Greeks)"; and these herds consisted of "very many herds of horses, very many of cattle, most of sheep and most of pig"(29). Such Albanians as these—and they were evidently the majority - were described by Laonicus Chalcocondylas (406) as follows: "This race are all nomads, and do not make their stay for long in any one place" they were, then, transhumant pastoralists without fixed abodes or villages. But there were many others who wanted to cultivate the land and were given land by the Venetians and the Greeks, because they were such hard-working and expert cultivators. When Manuel Cantacuzenus, Despot of Mistra in the Peloponnese, took over "all Albania," he deported two groups of Albanians and settled them, one near Constantinople and the other in the Peloponnese, the latter "a great number" (30). The Albanians were acceptable to the Greek, Catalan or Venetian overlords, as the case might be, because they were capable of reviving agriculture in derelict areas.
                              In the eyes of the Greeks/ the Albanians and those associated with them were fine hunters, (31) excellent horsemen and redoubtable warriors. As has been said by Joseph Campbell, "by and large hunting people are warrior people; and not only that, but many are exhilarated by battle and turn warfare into exercises in bravura"(32). These were the ancestors of the Souliote warriors, whom Byron admired so much in the Greek War of Independence. In the fourteenth century they were feared and hated in northern Greece, but they were hired as mercenaries or attracted as settlers by the rulers of the principalities in the Peloponnese and central Greece and Thessaly. The most warlike of the Albanians were those described by the Greeks as living in great mountainous areas, that is those engaged in pastoralism with the transhumance of sheep. They were certainly illiterate, but they were tightly organised in tribal units with a patriarchal system of leadership. The leaders were evidently very capable men, possessing wide powers over their followers, and 'John the Sword', 'Peter the Pockmark' and 'Peter the Lame' led very large armies of Albanian warriors with success. When they were hired as mercenaries, they came not as individuals but as organised bands, sometimes accompanied by their families and animals. The hope of their employers was that the Albanians would "come with their horses" and fulfil their obligations "to maintain their horses, garrison the forts and obey orders (34)". It was these cavalrymen, with their entourage, who were the leaders. The rank and file fought on foot.
                              With the capture of Ioannina by the Turks in 1430. The role of the Albanians changed very little. The Albanians of Kruje, Mati and Dibra, i.e. of the areas north of the Shkumbi river, fought heroically against the Turks until the death of their leader, Skanderbeg, in 1467 and indeed after it, but unavailingly. The Albanians of the Peloponnese participated in a rising against the Turks in 1459. On the other hand the Turks were soon employing the Albanians as mercenaries and encouraging them to settle in the devastated areas not only of the Greek mainland but also in some of the Aegean islands. So the process of infiltration and expansion continued under Turkish rule. By 1687, for instance, almost all the population of Euboea was Albanian, (35) the Greeks having fled in 1471.
                              Piracy had led to impoverishment and depopulation in the islands during the late Byzantine period, and Albanians moved in as occasion arose. Thus they were brought to Andros (sic Salamis?) in the Saronic Gulf c. 1600 to cultivate the land; they went from Troezen to Hydra in 1580, and other settlers arrived from Parga, Souli, Valona, Euboea and Cythnos in the seventeenth century. Other groups went to Samos, Psara and Casos, many of the settlers being from western Epirus, Euboea and Thessaly. Yet other groups entered Andros, Ios, Cythnos and Ceos among the Cyclades and Scopelos in the Northern Sporades. They became excellent seamen, winning distinction in the Greek War of Independence and raising Hydra and Spetsae to a leading position in the carrying trade of the Aegean basin. Groups of soldiers were employed far afield: in Cyprus, for instance, in Byzantine times, and for some 250 years in Crete during the Turkish period.
                              Last edited by tchaiku; 04-11-2017, 06:19 AM.

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