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Old 10-15-2021, 12:21 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-...omes/100539620

I saved this link earlier when it stated: Three in four aged care deaths in NSW's Delta outbreak were fully vaccinated as the heading.

Later today it has been edited and now it titled: COVID aged care deaths down, but fully vaccinated residents still vulnerable

In any case, the following still applies -


Trusting the science y'all?
I'll trust a бајачка before I trust their "science".
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Old 10-15-2021, 01:20 AM   #432
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So the consensus in this thread is that masks, vaccines, isolation measures, etc., are all ineffective and are just a scheme of governments to control people?! I feel this is part of a much broader anti-science, anti-intellectualism and anti-society stampede. Of course this kind of mindset started in the US but given the makeup of the forum, seems that it has found a very fertile ground in Australia too.
In general, I am not anti-vaccine. But I am for the freedom to choose what medicine goes into your body and the right to research it before making a decision. Is that anti-science? I think masks could be beneficial in some settings. But I am perplexed at watching so-called experts like Fauci flip-flop on the effectiveness of masks and then evade questions about his involvement with gain of function research. Is that anti-intellectualism? I support balanced and reasonable policies to address major health matters. But I am concerned that blanket lockdown measures have caused irreparable damage to society by exacerbating mental health, family issues and economic turmoil. I have a problem with individuals being forced to divulge private medical information for the purpose of non-intimate interactions. I am troubled by the unprecedent amount of control and monitoring capabilities that governments have over their populations whilst "elitist" personalities brazenly disregard the same positions they force on others. I also find it extremely concerning that the likeminded colleagues of such hypocrites associate phrases like "the great reset" and "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reimagine society" with COVID-19, as if they've been waiting for this moment to seize total control. Is that anti-society? Not everybody who has questions in relation to the above is a conspiracy theorist, but anybody that isn't prompted to question recent developments is naive at best. At worst, they may be anti-science, anti-intellectualism and anti-society.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:15 AM   #433
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... I feel this is part of a much broader anti-science, anti-intellectualism and anti-society stampede. Of course this kind of mindset started in the US but given the makeup of the forum, seems that it has found a very fertile ground in Australia too..
I think the broader problem is when people disagree with an opinion, an observation or even a fact these days it is never challenged by debate and the free exchange of ideas but by the labelling of individuals, movements and political ideologies as being anti-this and anti-that...just look at the popularity of the term anti-vaxxer and how readily and eagerly it is stamped on the forehead of anybody questioning vaccine mandates.
(you can easily be pro-vaccine but anti-mandate or you simply believe in pro-choice)

Using anti-this, anti-that as a rebuttal to everything you disagree with seems to be the preferred strategy of the progressives to quash all dissenting voices, to alienate vast swathes of society with stigma and to relegate the great unwashed to the new untouchable caste of the 21st century.
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Old 10-15-2021, 10:03 PM   #434
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Really worth watching.
https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/pr...-we-will-win:a

The ignorant pro-vaccine Pfizer simps should watch this and eat some (low carb) humble pie.

The best part is that the potential exists to make us all infinitely healthier by remedying our insulin resistance. You will reduce your visceral fat and, as an added bonus, become shielded from covid. I'm already there now thanks to my dietary changes implemented a few months ago. I strongly urge you all to embrace this (and the video)
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:15 AM   #435
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Thanks for your responses! There have a been a few different lines of argumentation, which I will aim to address.

1) No, there is no new science developed in this thread (or any other online forum of this kind). Science is developed in labs, published in peer-reviewed venues and maybe, some of it becomes the concesus. Your own research is not science. The problem is that you might make it sound like science, scare people who are then reluctant to get vaccinated and put not just themselves but primarily others who can't get vaccinated for whatever reason. It is irresponsible and unethical.

2) Too much talk about rights but no talk about responsibility. It is your responsibility to get vaccinated and protect the vulnerable. You may ask questions, yes, but they've all been answered again and again. Regarding the so-call-freedom approach, you are free to not follow the rules/needs of the society, don't expect to continue to reap its benefits though or that the rest of us will just stay put and risk our freedom for a healthy life. (I am not sure about great resets or opportunities of a lifetime. We haven't had this talk in NZ. Maybe an Aussie thing?)

3) The anti terms I used are essentially identifying reactionary mindsets and ideologies that try to keep us or take us back to the "great times" as they perceive it. You know these great times that for example diseases were rampant because no vaccines were around... The problem is the bad ideology, not the people of course. Unfortunately, echo chambers and social stampedes have been shown to not be able to broken by direct opposition, the group dynamics merely force it together again. So yes, you are right, it's probably prodent to not provoke such groups with labels. Instead, research on this field recommends offering facts/news from completely different topic to get people interested in, which will hopefully help break up the cluster by giving it more dimensions to move to.

At a positive note, NZ today had more than 130K vaccinations on a single day!! This was an organized event dubbed Vacathon or Super Saturday. Please, go all and get your shots! Even if you are concerned, remember you are not doing this just for yourselves, you do this to protect the weak and vulnerable of our society who can't get a vaccine.
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Old 10-16-2021, 06:57 AM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
Thanks for your responses! There have a been a few different lines of argumentation, which I will aim to address.

1) No, there is no new science developed in this thread (or any other online forum of this kind). Science is developed in labs, published in peer-reviewed venues and maybe, some of it becomes the concesus. Your own research is not science. The problem is that you might make it sound like science, scare people who are then reluctant to get vaccinated and put not just themselves but primarily others who can't get vaccinated for whatever reason. It is irresponsible and unethical.
Do you work for Pfizer? You sound like an advertisement for them. I will assume you don't and draw to your attention the silencing of real scientists right now. When I say "real", I mean independent and critical ones who do not fear the power and influence of big pharma. Ignore them at your own peril.

While you are at it, take a really good look at India and see why they are at endemic phase and why Israel, in contrast, is falling apart.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
2) Too much talk about rights but no talk about responsibility. It is your responsibility to get vaccinated and protect the vulnerable. You may ask questions, yes, but they've all been answered again and again. Regarding the so-call-freedom approach, you are free to not follow the rules/needs of the society, don't expect to continue to reap its benefits though or that the rest of us will just stay put and risk our freedom for a healthy life. (I am not sure about great resets or opportunities of a lifetime. We haven't had this talk in NZ. Maybe an Aussie thing?)
These are brand new, never-tested before, gene altering therapies. The Pfizer cash-grab failed in its first tests with both animals and humans. In Australia, it will not be considered for approval for use on humans until 2023. The provisional approval in place presently absolves Pfizer and Astra-Zeneca from all legal liability until then. You may not know Astra-Zeneca is already banned in some countries. Moderna is also banned in some countries for under 30 year olds.

We are yet to see the long term effects.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
3) The anti terms I used are essentially identifying reactionary mindsets and ideologies that try to keep us or take us back to the "great times" as they perceive it. You know these great times that for example diseases were rampant because no vaccines were around... The problem is the bad ideology, not the people of course. Unfortunately, echo chambers and social stampedes have been shown to not be able to broken by direct opposition, the group dynamics merely force it together again. So yes, you are right, it's probably prodent to not provoke such groups with labels. Instead, research on this field recommends offering facts/news from completely different topic to get people interested in, which will hopefully help break up the cluster by giving it more dimensions to move to.
Do you know that insulin resistance is the cause of multiple morbidities and other illnesses? Researchers have known this for decades and yet the myth of low fat / high carbohydrate diets is still presented as the way to live a healthy life. As a consequence, foisting cholesterol lowering, blood pressure reducing and insulin controlling drugs on an unsuspecting population with medical scripts for half their lives is now considered normal. If they can get away with lying about this for 40 years, then they certainly can maintain the charade of vaccine effectiveness for the 4 year window they are working with. Make no mistake, it is a window for transferring wealth from nations.

If 30% of the population has a very healthy scepticism about vaccines and the way they have been implemented, what is it to you? I have made it my duty to try and protect people from these poisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
At a positive note, NZ today had more than 130K vaccinations on a single day!! This was an organized event dubbed Vacathon or Super Saturday. Please, go all and get your shots! Even if you are concerned, remember you are not doing this just for yourselves, you do this to protect the weak and vulnerable of our society who can't get a vaccine.
At a less than positive note. 577 people have died from vaccinations in Australia (referenced from the TGA website). What we are yet to see are the long term effects of the gene altering poisons being injected into people who actually believe they are being looked after.

I have no idea how the weak are being protected when the "vaccinated" can still infect others. You know this right? How am I protecting the "weak and vulnerable of our society who can't get a vaccine" if I can still spread the virus as a vaccinated person? You do not make sense at all. It is easy to dismiss such ignorance. Of course you will then become defensive and say the infection is less dangerous for the vaccinated, but that won't explain why most of the people dying right now are already vaccinated.

How many dead from vaccinations in NZ right now? Don't make me look it up and rub your face in it. That would be rude.
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:21 AM   #437
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At a less than positive note. 577 people have died from vaccinations in Australia (referenced from the TGA website).
I don't think that's quite accurate. TGA says it is 9 confirmed.

25M doses which have resulted in 9 confirmed deaths from the vaccination, with all but one being AstraZeneca.

That's being compared to the 130K COVID-19 cases which have resulted in 1,448 deaths from the virus.

Again, risking a flame war, but it seems to me it's still one-sided presentations of views and numbers on both sides of this.
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:23 AM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
Too much talk about rights but no talk about responsibility. It is your responsibility to get vaccinated and protect the vulnerable. You may ask questions, yes, but they've all been answered again and again. Regarding the so-call-freedom approach, you are free to not follow the rules/needs of the society, don't expect to continue to reap its benefits though or that the rest of us will just stay put and risk our freedom for a healthy life. (I am not sure about great resets or opportunities of a lifetime. We haven't had this talk in NZ. Maybe an Aussie thing?)
Instead of highlighting all of the points that you've missed, I will ask some direct questions so we can move beyond your rehearsed talking points and get down to specifics. According to the WHO, both COVID-19 and the flu share similar symptoms, spread in similar ways and require similar protective measures. Globally, the former appears to be more fatal (if the statistics are to be trusted), but a study from the University of Otago indicates that approximately 500 people die from the flu each year in New Zealand. Incomparably more than COVID-19 thus far. There are differences, of course, so don't interpret this as equivalence, just focus on the point. Those that don't get the flu vaccination in NZ clearly put your healthy life at risk. Should they also be subjected to the same measures as the hitherto (COVID-19) unvaccinated people? In your utopia, what limitations should be placed on the people who are exempted from getting a vaccine due to other medical issues? In what circumstances should people continue to wear masks after being double-vaccinated? At what point do you envision life returning to normal?

Whether intentional or not, your characterisation of the "so-call-freedom approach" merely demonstrates your lack of regard for others. Questions asked and answered? Right. Rather than seeking greater transparency and consistency in the messaging so people feel more comfortable about the process and have a greater understanding about its politicisation, you desire a cocktail of blind obedience and force as the preferred method. Seems somewhat totalitarian. Do you see nothing wrong with prohibiting a child from visiting a parent for months on end? Do you posses the foresight to understand how the financial ruin that has been inflicted upon thousands of families and the consequent quasi-welfare approach will negatively impact taxpayers in a significant way? Does the escalated power of the government, particularly in relation to controlling and monitoring your activities, not concern you, at least a little? Do you really think the COVID-19 policies in Australia and NZ have been the most appropriate?

As for the "great resets or opportunities of a lifetime", it's not an Aussie thing. It's a World Economic Forum thing. Echoed by the leaders of Canada, the U.S. and others who are ideologically aligned with your virtue-signalling leader in NZ.
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:46 AM   #439
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I don't think that's quite accurate. TGA says it is 9 confirmed.

25M doses which have resulted in 9 confirmed deaths from the vaccination, with all but one being AstraZeneca.

That's being compared to the 130K COVID-19 cases which have resulted in 1,448 deaths from the virus.

Again, risking a flame war, but it seems to me it's still one-sided presentations of views and numbers on both sides of this.
577 is the number listed on the TGA DAEN database as of today. Based on what is happening worldwide, the suggestion is that this number would be closer to 10% of the real numbers.

Just an off the cuff statement here, I know people who have lost someone due to vaccinations. But I don't know a single person who has died from covid. Not to say people can't die from covid.

Where do you see 9? I can show you clearly where I get 577 from. The same report shows 43 were blinded under the heading of "cases with a single suspected medicine"

Feel free to present your science here. I suspect you're going to really want to believe in it.

By the way, here is some information from USA. Do you want to disagree with that also:

Quote:
​​COVID-19 vaccines result in far more deaths in just 10 months than all other vaccines combined for the last 30 years

Data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) shows that the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines had been associated to the deaths of 16,310 people since December last year. Prior to that, there had only been 6,214 people who died from all vaccines approved by the Food and Drug Administration .

There have also been more permanent disabilities, life-threatening reactions and hospitalizations from COVID-19 vaccines compared to all other mandated jabs in the past 30 years. The database has also recorded 2,102 fetal deaths following the inoculation of the COVID-19 shots in pregnant women.

Yet, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) continues to tell American people and pregnant women that it is safe to get a COVID-19 vaccine.

Record number of people suffering from adverse effects

The CDC admits that there are risks of thrombosis and heart diseases from the COVID-19 vaccines, especially among younger males. However, they brush aside these known side effects as “rare” and continue to push people to get the shots despite the risks.

The VAERS database is open to the public to fact-check their claims. As of October 1, there had been 12,553 cases of thrombosis recorded through VAERS, resulting in 589 death, 869 permanent disabilities and 2,543 life-threatening events for people who took COVID-19 shots in the first 10 months of rollout. Using the same data for all the vaccines in the past 30 years, there have been 487 cases of thrombosis resulting in 18 deaths, 65 permanent disabilities and 110 life-threatening events.

Since the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccines, there had been 26 times more cases of blood clots and 33 times more deaths from blood clots than cases and deaths due to blood clots following all other types of vaccinations in the past 30 years.

Senior citizens over the age of 65 comprise 76 percent of the recorded deaths following the COVID-19 vaccination, which translates to 12,396 deaths. Before the COVID-19 vaccination, there had only been 1,068 people over the age of 65 who died from any of the previous types of vaccines in the past 30 years.

Older adults are among the hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. People 65 years and older represent nearly 80 percent of all COVID-19 deaths as of September 29. At the same time, these older adults are among the first to receive the vaccine and have the highest vaccination rates among all age groups, with 83.3 percent fully vaccinated.

Despite these numbers, the CDC and the FDA still approved the booster dose for this age group.

COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations rise among vaccinated

In Pennsylvania, COVID-19 infections and hospitalizations . Officials say that the majority of people in the area are vaccinated, but it is likely that the protection has already waned.

The Department of Health data on so-called breakthrough infections shows that between September 5 and October 4, about a quarter of infections and nearly 5,000 hospital admissions across the state were among vaccinated individuals. As more people get vaccinated, there are also more vaccinated people who contract the virus and eventually wind up in the hospital.

The situation in Pennsylvania mirrors the national impact of the virus. COVID-19 cases accounted for 14 percent of U.S. hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths in June and July – about twice the percentage compared to earlier in the year.
Feel free to fact-check. Be sure to fact-check the fact-checkers though.
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:52 AM   #440
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To be fair to anyone from Victoria, my cousin over there was fiercely anti-covid vaccines. 300 days of mental torture got the better of him and he is vaccinated now. The psychological torture of lockdowns didn't make his decision right. Sadly, I believe the environment you all endured has created a skewed environment that many have not been able to withstand.

Sweden is the best example that lockdowns were never necessary.
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