18th-19th century 'greek' intellectuals saw Anc. Maks as conquerors

[Voltron]

Kozhani? Ask your cousin what it means in Greek.
Notwithstanding this, Kozhani is close to the southern end of Macedonia. I would expect some other languages to have influence the further south one goes.

Well, I never said it was a Greek toponym. Another example how we did not change every toponym in Macedonia.

In a modern sense, for example in countries which are net takers of immigrants I would agree with you, but, how easy do you think it is to resurrect a native language after three generations of suppression?

Why should we resurect their native language ? Is it an endangered language on the verge of extiniction ? Or are you suggesting we convert self identifying Greeks into something else ? Where do we start ? Should we then go to Pontus and resurrect Greek over there ? And what about the "Grekomani" ? They certainly dont view themselves as anything else but Greek. Slavophone Greeks to be more accurate. And lastly if all else fails, in today's internet age all the information to learn about one's history is there. No need to get the government involved. Its not their place to begin with.

In the nineteenth century the Kozani region was inhabited exclusively by Turks from Konya, who returned to Turkey. The sole exception was the town of Kozani itself, where the Greek speaking inhabitants were almost all Hellenized Vlachs.

I know about the Turks and Hellenized Vlachs. That doesnt change the fact that those are Greeks though. Vlachs are one of the most indeginous groups in the Balkans and there is enough evidence to suggest they could very well been Latin speaking Greeks. Today they have been reintroduced to their original language which is obviously Greek and are one of our most fervent patriots.

[Risto the Great]

Well, I never said it was a Greek toponym. Another example how we did not change every toponym in Macedonia.

Please tell me the others. Although Greeks lost something in the translation by losing the "zh" when changing Kozhani to Kozani.

[Agamoi Thytai]

Voltron Said
Quote:
Risto there are Greeks from Macedonia that disagree with that statement. I have a cousin from Kozani area that is native to the region

Quote:
In the nineteenth century the Kozani region was inhabited exclusively by Turks from Konya, who returned to Turkey. The sole exception was the town of Kozani itself, where the Greek speaking inhabitants were almost all Hellenized Vlachs.

Nakratzas Page 129

El Bre,is this quote from Nakratzas' book "The close racial kinship between the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks"?I ask you because it is not available online.Anyway,Nakratzas is not a trustworthy source.He is not a historian or ethnologist but a professor of medicine:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Nakratzas%2C+a+teacher+in+Thessaloniki%27s+medical+faculty&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=el

Furthermore,he is the adviser of vinozito:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Dr+George+Nakratzas%2C+Adviser+of+Rainbow%2FVinozito+%28Party+of+the+Ethnic+Macedonian+Minority+in+Greece%29%2C+&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=el

There are many first hand accounts from European travelers who visited the region of Kozani in 19th century and mention the existence of Greek populations in the countryside,f.e. William Martin Leake (1835) :

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nx0GAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA299

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nx0GAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA332

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nx0GAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA304

Note that Leake didn't confuse Vlachs with Greeks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nx0GAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA335

[Voltron]

Please tell me the others. Although Greeks lost something in the translation by losing the "zh" when changing Kozhani to Kozani.

Metsovo, Konitsa, Kaimatsalan, etc. Im sure you heard of these Risto. Havnt you ? Some are really nice ski resorts as well, I heard great reviews over at Kaimatsalan but its a hike from Athens.

Agamoi, Im not an expert on Kozani's history, just been there when I was a kid to visit my cousins family up there.
Thanks for posting those references to that book. Good read.

[El Bre]

Why should we resurect their native language ? Is it an endangered language on the verge of extiniction ? Or are you suggesting we convert self identifying Greeks into something else ? Where do we start ? Should we then go to Pontus and resurrect Greek over there ? And what about the "Grekomani" ? They certainly dont view themselves as anything else but Greek. Slavophone Greeks to be more accurate. And lastly if all else fails, in today's internet age all the information to learn about one's history is there. No need to get the government involved. Its not their place to begin with.

Who said it was anybody's responsability to do anything today????

What I said was, how easy do you think it is for these communities to be able to resurrect a language and culture after three or four generations of both overt and passive suppression.

Exactly how many Grekomani do think there would be today if it wasn't the goal of the Greek government to eradicate the Macedonian ethos????

You seem to forget one important fact in all of this. We didn't come to you (like the "Paki's"
and "Flips" that you have seem to have such disdain for) you came to us. And when I say us, I mean me, I was born in and have roots in Aegean Macedonia. Not far away in the Peloponnese like yourself.

[Voltron]

If we came, we came because we lost our homelands too. This happens everywhere, we should just bury the hatchet instead of trying to antagonize each other with past greivences. When you say Aegean Macedonia, what village do you mean exactly? If you dont mind of course.

BTW El Bre, I dont have disdain for Pakistani's, I also never said Filipinos in fact they are not a problem at all.
Its just that we are a small country and we simply cannot take care of them. We have our own problems to deal with.

[Epirot]

Hey,calm down,Emver Hodza,I didn't call you dumb,although I wouldn't hesitate to call you if I considered you as such,I have no respect for people who lick where they used once to spit

What the f** has Enver Hoxha to do with the topic? At least, spell correctly his name: Enver Hoxha not "Emver Hodza"!!! I'd even bother to comment into your verbal diarrhea since my educate is better than yours. All of your insults tell to your parents, who probably taught you. It's the father and mother at home who are responsible for teaching to their children the basic educate, are not they? So, do not disgrace your family since I want to believe that you're an exception...a bastard! By the way, your favorite myths are going to be smashed one by one here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=107827&posted=1#post107827

"Όλοι οι Έλληνες,μάλιστα οι Μακεδόνες και οι Θεσσαλοί είναι φιλόξενοι"

You're downgrade yourself even more! How the f*** you conclude from the above paragraph that D. Pyrrhos thought ancient Macedonians as Hellenes? I am afraid he was referring to the Μακεδόνες and Θεσσαλοί of his time, was not he? By the way, we know pretty well what was the ethnic make-up of these regions at that time!

No,you liar,you apparently threw that passage of Koumas in order to present your fraudulent claim that he considered all Klephtes as Albanians (as if that has something to do with the topic) which was certainly not the case!Now that I revealed the truth and exposed your fraudulent attempt,you bark like the chicken thiev who is caught red- handed.

Believe whatever you want you Serres cretin! I've made a compilation of sources in regards with the Klephtes and Armatoli. Follow the link:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5858

All educated Greeks of all times knew the most prominent figures of ancient Greece

All educated Europeans knew the most prominent figures of ancient Greece. So what? The leading Phanariot elite was much more interested in Orthodoxism rather than in ancient Greek heritage:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5709

As regards common people that were usually illiterate,yes,most of them didn't know so much,but this happens in every society,illiterate people are not renown for their historical knowledge...let alone in lands that were 4 centuries under Ottoman rule,without schools and formal education.

The "Greeks" of XIX-th century we are speaking about, knew nothing about ancient Greek past not because they were illiterate, but because they were descendants of Albanians, Vlachs, Slavs, Turks, Franks, Venetians, etc.

Tell me,Albanovski,how many Albanians in 19th century had any clue about king Pyrros,whom you disgrace using his image as your avatar

We Albanians consider Pyrrhos as our heritage centuries before some lunatic Greek organizations aiming for 'Northern Epirus' put forward weird claims about Greekness of Pyrrhus and Epirus, in general.


Albania and the Albanians: selected articles and letters 1903-1944 By M. Edith Durham, Harry Hodgkinson, Bejtullah D. Destani

The most ancient habits of primitive Europe are here preserved and the influence of progress since the days of King Pyrrhus is practically nil. Epirus and its descendant Albania have been repeatedly subdued, but their submission has ...

The Open court, Volume 27
http://books.google.com/books?id=lPc...ed=0CE0Q6AEwBw

A survey of the Turkish empire: In which are considered, I. Its government ... By William Eton

http://books.google.com/books?id=fjMOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA382&dq=ali+pasha++pyrrhus+descendant&hl=en&ei=BB5JTq3qKIvssgan2ZiiCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=ali%20pasha%20%20pyrrhus%20descendant&f=false

This has nothing to do with the topic!Furthermore,it clearly shows Peter Green is definitely not a pro-Greek person,thus his testimony that Alexander has survived in the folk consciousness of medieval and modern Greece becomes more valuable and reliable,in case you haven't grasped it!Thanks for strengthening my argument!

hahahahaha strengthening your argument! Your argument is dismantled thoroughly since there are solid evidences that Alexander the Great has been introduced into memory of "Greeks" very recently. T-shirts, airports, Taxi-companies, slogans with Alexander the Great can not be counted as valuable evidence that Alexander is deep-rooted into folk consciousness of your people! I am sorry

I am not fat,bozo!

Yes you're!


Fields of wheat, hills of blood: passages to nationhood in Greek Macedonia ... By Anastasia N. Karakasidou

Apart from the attempts of Orthodox Church to educate its parishioners, most of the Greek inhabitants of Macedonia knew very little about Alexander. This little acknowledge was fostered by local priests and school-teachers. This is the reason why I call you a big fat because you cynically ignore all the evidences that demolishes your fragile claims.

According to the continuity thesis, which is still the basis of the mainstream of Greek historiography, the ancient Macedonians are necessarily Greek and Alexander the Great is a powerful symbol of what Greek genius and perseverance...

Constructions of Greek past: identity and historical consciousness from antiquity to the present
Hero Hokwerda

Bump it up the following stuff!


Freedom in the World: The Annual Survey of Political Rights & Civil ... By Freedom House Survey Team

More worryingly, Greeks who disagree publicly with their government on the subject can find themselves in court. Next month four members of an anti-nationalist group will appeal against a 19-month sentence for "disseminating false information" and "attempting to incite violence". Their offence was to distribute a leaflet with the title, "Our neighbors are not our enemies. No to nationalism and to war." An 18-year-old student, Michael Papadakis, is also waiting for an appeal hearing against a one-year sentence he received for distributing a leaflet that called Alexander the Great, the most famous Macedonian of all, a war criminal. It added "Macedonia belongs to its people. There are no races. We are all of mixed descent." Mr Papadakis was charged with attempting to incite division among citizens, disturbing the peace and carrying a weapon. No evidence was produced in court to substantiate the last charge.

"The Economist" on Macedonians in Greece
By David Edenden
http://the-macedonian-tendency.blogs...in-greece.html

The Greek fascism showed its totalitarian face especially in 1993, when the government cracked down on people with dissenting views on its Macedonian policy and Greek nationalism. Four Innocent individuals who questioned the Macedonian policy were sentenced with nineteen month. Whereas, a braveheart Greek student who dared to call Alexander as 'miserable slayer of people' was sentenced with one year. Imagine if any other open minded student would call Alexander as non-Greek king. He would be executed publicly by Greek guard.

Dear members of Macedoniantruth,

We should not be angry with the fraudulent claims of our Agamoi! If he does not fulfill adequately his patriotic duty, he may receive a 1 year or more sentence. I guess he's also impelled to claim Bucephalus also as Greek by origin...lol

Yeah,watch out because this homosexualism wave has started to cover Albania too.Are you the owner of these sites?

You're loosing control of yourself! It seem you are very upset and like a whore you're throwing pointless words back and forth! It's not our fault that Greece is a champion country in the Balkans in terms of the highest numbers of homosexuals. I am so sorry!

[El Bre]

If we came, we came because we lost our homelands too. This happens everywhere, we should just bury the hatchet instead of trying to antagonize each other with past grievances. When you say Aegean Macedonia, what village do you mean exactly? If you don't mind of course.

I have no problem burying my hatchet, unfortunately, we can't just sweep this shit under the rug like it never happened. The constant denials and rationalizations need to stop first. Only then can we start on the long road to reconciliation. If Macedonia was ever Greek (which I don't think it was) it wasn't for a very long time and much happened in between. You can't just jump from the beginning of a book to the end because you don't like the content in the middle.

[El Bre]

@ AT

Nakratzes uses references to support his suppositions, although, I will confess he does make leaps based on names of places and things.

The fact that he is / was an adviser to Vinozhito is you just delving into the realm of dime store espionage novels.

Siatitsa...really???? That is a well known Romanian town. I mean that's Macedonia 101. The Vlachs of Siatitsa were Hellenized early on in the game, whereas the ones Leake found elsewhere were not quite there yet, Hence the distinction.

[Agamoi Thytai]

Kozhani? Ask your cousin what it means in Greek.

Risto,I'll tell you what's the etymology of Kozani if you tell me what do Pelister and Negotino mean in Macedonian.Also can you find any meaning in your language for these toponyms:
1)Aposkep.

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BF

2)Arkudohor.

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%80

3)Zervohor.

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%96%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%80

4)Aitos.

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%90%D1%98%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81

5)Embore

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%95%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5

(All the above are the genuine names of some villages in Aegean Macedonia whose inhabitants were not Greek speakers in 1900).

[Agamoi Thytai]

What the f** has Enver Hoxha to do with the topic? At least, spell correctly his name: Enver Hoxha not "Emver Hodza"!!!

I couldn't care less how it's properly spelled!

I'd even bother to comment into your verbal diarrhea since my educate is better than yours.

Yeah,sure....by the way,it's called "education",not "educate"!

All of your insults tell to your parents, who probably taught you. It's the father and mother at home who are responsible for teaching to their children the basic educate, are not they? So, do not disgrace your family since I want to believe that you're an exception...a bastard!

Come on now....still missing your father in Paris?

http://books.google.com/books?id=24WyKgtxGSIC&dq=My+name+is+not+Natasha&hl=el&source=gbs_navlinks_s

By the way, your favorite myths are going to be smashed one by one here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=107827&posted=1#post107827

You're downgrade yourself even more! How the f*** you conclude from the above paragraph that D. Pyrrhos thought ancient Macedonians as Hellenes? I am afraid he was referring to the Μακεδόνες and Θεσσαλοί of his time, was not he? By the way, we know pretty well what was the ethnic make-up of these regions at that time!

Why don't you comment the other page where Pyrros describes all Macedonian kings as Greeks,you fraud?

Believe whatever you want you Serres cretin! I've made a compilation of sources in regards with the Klephtes and Armatoli. Follow the link:
http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5858

You wallet thief,there were Greek Klephtes and armatoli and Albanians too,this is what Koumas wrote yet you tried to distort the meaning of his text,why don't you admit it?

All educated Europeans knew the most prominent figures of ancient Greece. So what?

Yes,but most of them only after Byzantine scholars introduced in the West the study of ancient Greek authors.Besides,these educated Europeans didn't claim to be descendands of ancient Greeks

The "Greeks" of XIX-th century we are speaking about, knew nothing about ancient Greek past not because they were illiterate, but because they were descendants of Albanians, Vlachs, Slavs, Turks, Franks, Venetians, etc.

Racial mixing is quite common all over the Balkans,or you believe only the Albanians kept intact their "ancient Epirotic" blood and therefore they inherited from generation to generation traditions about "their" glorious ancestor Pyrrhus!Give me a break!

We Albanians consider Pyrrhos as our heritage centuries before some lunatic Greek organizations aiming for 'Northern Epirus' put forward weird claims about Greekness of Pyrrhus and Epirus, in general.


Albania and the Albanians: selected articles and letters 1903-1944 By M. Edith Durham, Harry Hodgkinson, Bejtullah D. Destani

This is not a 19th century source,you chicken thief,it's from 1916!

http://books.google.com/books?id=8KCZhBWVkgMC&pg=PA69

At that time you were already brainwashed by some deluded Albanian scholars that you werr somhow related to Pyrrhus,though you could not even pronounce properly his name...Burrus,Burra,hey,maybe you actually were very font of burek and confused it with Pyrrhus's name!
burek:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6rek)
As for ancient Epirotans and Pyrrhus,there is no contemporary decent historian who doesn't consider them as Greek.

A survey of the Turkish empire: In which are considered, I. Its government ... By William Eton
http://books.google.com/books?id=fjM...endant&f=false

Bulshitt!Ali Pasha didn't have any clue about Pyrrhus untill someone else told him:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Shekretti+told+Ali+of+Pyrrhus+and+his+celebrated+victories%2C+of+how+the+districts+which+he+now+ruled+formed+the&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=el

http://www.google.com/search?q=to+the+historian-+versifier%2C+Ali+said+sternly%2C+%22Remember+to+put+in+the+ballad+that+I%2C+Ali+Pasha%2C+successor+to+Bourrhos&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=el

It was when he ordered his balladeer to compose for him a ballad called "Alipasiad" in Greek.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Alipasiad&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=el

hahahahaha strengthening your argument! Your argument is dismantled thoroughly since there are solid evidences that Alexander the Great has been introduced into memory of "Greeks" very recently. T-shirts, airports, Taxi-companies, slogans with Alexander the Great can not be counted as valuable evidence that Alexander is deep-rooted into folk consciousness of your people! I am sorry
Apart from the attempts of Orthodox Church to educate its parishioners, most of the Greek inhabitants of Macedonia knew very little about Alexander. This little acknowledge was fostered by local priests and school-teachers. This is the reason why I call you a big fat because you cynically ignore all the evidences that demolishes your fragile claims.

Karakasidoy may have her own view,but I trust more FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS FROM 1835 AND 1903.In case you forgot it,here they are,straight in your face:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/olympileake.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/Macfolklcover.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/Macfolkl251.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/Macfolkl279.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/Macfolkl280.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/Macfolkl282.jpg

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/ae8bc8de8b5ddf36562d96f3cd9cfe91.jpg

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/f8859a573659ab2f22cdf38baddb0ea7.jpg

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/395050844a6404b11c110c14bd60a945.jpg

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/d5308539882414a2116558c1944209f9.jpg

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/977bda6856b4a5258b037ccbf65a6d65.gif

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/8b41783015065822089b279d5c91e7c6.gif

How can I consider as "evidence" something that is written by a contemporary author when first hand accounts say otherwise?



Bump it up the following stuff!


Freedom in the World: The Annual Survey of Political Rights & Civil ... By Freedom House Survey Team

The Greek fascism showed its totalitarian face especially in 1993, when the government cracked down on people with dissenting views on its Macedonian policy and Greek nationalism. Four Innocent individuals who questioned the Macedonian policy were sentenced with nineteen month. Whereas, a braveheart Greek student who dared to call Alexander as 'miserable slayer of people' was sentenced with one year. Imagine if any other open minded student would call Alexander as non-Greek king. He would be executed publicly by Greek guard.

Look who is speaking about fascism:

http://www.balkanchronicle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=602:tensions-resurface-in-albanian-greek-relations&catid=83:middle-east&Itemid=460

[julie]

Agamoi Thytai, Epirot is not a fraud and as the Kapetan from that vicious malicious and hateful maggots website you post here, I would suggest instead of nit picking on Epirot's grammar with the English Language, you would concentrate on the posts content instead.

Amazing how once backed into a corner you would revert to such behaviour

I am apalled at your hypocrisy and gall that the head of such anti_macedonian websites is even given the courtesy to post here

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

I have no problem burying my hatchet, unfortunately, we can't just sweep this shit under the rug like it never happened. The constant denials and rationalizations need to stop first. Only then can we start on the long road to reconciliation.

There has to be understainding from both sides, right now we are no where close to it but things change. Greeks and Turks used to hate each others guts but today its no longer the case. Even though there are still political problems between both countries both ppls take it with a grain of salt.

You can't just jump from the beginning of a book to the end because you don't like the content in the middle.

Roger that El Bre. About your village, Thanks

[TrueMacedonian]

Well,the thread is called "18th-19th century 'greek' intellectuals saw Anc. Maks as conquerors" while Kolokotronis was not an intellectual,so he doen't have any place here.

Where is this map from and who has drawn it?I doubt it was Kolokotronis himself,he was completely illiterate and could hardly sign with his name,let alone to draw geographical maps


Again I don't see how is related to the current topic all what you have posted above about Leake,Abbott and Keith Beown,and the languages that were spoken in Macedonia of 19th century.

What's the problem with that specific quote?No,I won't post it because Boiannes was not an intellectual either,though I am not aware what was the level of his education regardless of the fact that most Byzantine high ranking millitary commanders and statesmen were highly educated men.

So folk songs and folk stories about the Ancient Macedonians were relegated within Macedonia? Is this what you are saying? Kolokotronis surely would have known some songs relating to the supposed "greekness" of Macedonia and its most famous sons like Philip II and Alexander III.

As for Leake, Abbot and Brown you either blanket yourself in sheer ignorance or you are completely aloof when it comes to terminologies in the balkans and what they meant for centuries. I recommend you comb through this topic here - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...p?t=835&page=8

[Orfej]

As I said in one of my previous post,I didn't have read so far what exactly Korais wrote about ancient Macedonians,I only had somewhere read he didn't consider them as Greeks. Now that I see some of his writings...

So this is the first time you read Korais? And by reading only two sentences of his work you've managed to conclude that he is not certain regarding the Macedonians and their place in ancient history? Congratulations, you are a genius and this is a real scholarly work. Now what we need to do is to take out the diplomas (and all other credentials) to the vast amount of authors (many listed on this thread) who wrote otherwise, that Korais certainly didn't considered the Ancient Macedonians as part of the Greek world. Most of them probably have read all the works of Korais, but they didn't had the genius mind of our friend Agamoi, who renounces all scholars with only reading two pages of Korais work. Imagine what he would do if he had read three or even four pages?

it's quite clear he was not sure,since he states "they were PERHAPS Hellenes".What else do you need to read.

I wrote in the earlier response, but you didn't took that in consideration.
By saying 'Perhaps being Hellenes' Korais means that the Ancient Macedonians perhaps had the same origin as the Greeks and shared the same culture and language. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM PART OF THE GREEK ETHNOS. You should know that, your Greek nation is a melting pot of people with different origin, language and culture. You also excluded from your nation people who were naturally Greek speakers and had Greek culture( The Greek catholic and the Greek muslim population). So by having a Greek origin doesn't mean that you are a part of the ‘Greek ethnos’ or the 'Greek world'. Korais knew that and he considered the Macedonians as enemies of the Greeks, their conquerors or subjugators as he puts it. That's why he omitted Macedonia and put her outside of the Greek world in his maps, similarly like MOST of the Greek intellectuals at the time.

And yes,if a scholar is considered as the most prominent of his time by all his contemporary compatriots,he can indeed influence them,it's not so strange.

How big is your level of intelligence? 60? Read carefully… first you stated that Korais as the most prominent scholar influenced the rest of the Greek intelligentsia to think that the Ancient Macedonians were not Greeks. But then you blundered, claiming that Korais was himself uncertain regarding the origin and ethnicity of the Macedonians. These two things are incompatible… how can a person influence others to think that the Ancient Macedonians are not Greeks when he himself is doubtful about it?

Well,I've shown you Greek scholars who considered ancient Macedonians as Greeks long before Droysen's time

You’ve showed one liners you idiot! Do you really think they are enough for an opinion about a topic to be established?! Hell no! That’s why I asked you what else have these authors which you quoted have written about the Ancient Macedonians apart from the one liners you cite? For example you cited a ‘scholar’ called Georgios Fatseas. Who is he? Was he a prominent Greek intellectual? Had he any influence among the Greek community? What else has he written about the Ancient Macedonians?

Look how are you manipulating what Korais wrote in order to suit your claim!If we accept your view that Korais didn't mean the Macedonians with the phrase "Alexander's succesors were perhaps Greeks themsleves",he doesn't say "the Hellenes were subjugated to the Macedonians" either,he just says "the Hellenes were subjugated to Alexander's succesors"!So,Orphei,first you convert "Alexander's succesors" to non-Macedonians when it doesn't suit you and then again you turn them to Macedonians when it suits you!Anyway,Alexander's succesors who shared between them his empire were certainly all Macedonians,except one,Eumenes of Cardia.Quintus Curtius Rufus' relevant pasage is very enlightening on this issue:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/quintcurt205.gif

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...intcurt206.gif

You can look at it either way you like, it won’t change the substance. Since you reveal that Alexander’s successors were Macedonians themselves then it’s clear that the Greeks were SUBJEGATED/ENSLAVED by the Macedonians and that this enslavement was BAD, but not too bad). The reason why it wasn’t so bad is because the Macedonian origin may have been Hellenic. Of course, origin has nothing to do with ethnicity and nation, that’s why Korais doesn’t doubt to put the Macedonians outside of the Greek world.

Be patient,Orphej,there is much more stuff to be posted besides the however I am very busy.

Just remember, we are looking for the stuff of the AUTHORS YOU ALREADY CITED. We want to get a whole picture about them and what they thought about the Macedonians. We can’t get that when you cite only one or two sentences from their books. If they regarded the Macedonians as Greeks, they’ve surely wrote more the one sentence about them! Didn’t they?