United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • makedonche
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 3242

    Preliminary assesment - deflection of answering the core of the question in subject, reduced response time allocation after a longwinded attempt at explanations/justifications of actions, appearance of inadequate allowancwes for questions/answers/rebuttals, lack of appropriate order.
    On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

    Comment

    • blackcactus
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 242

      Thank you RTG for posting this, thank you for standing up and asking your questions which you did very well by the way

      Sadly when the camera moved to Meto, the visual and audio quality was not quite good enough, which made it hard to read Meto, I'll have to see him in person when he comes to Perth

      You mentioned his talk was generally well received, so I'll assume he is a competent speaker

      Now my take on what I could make out from his answer to you

      He is diplomatic in his language and tone (which wasn't all that clear due to the Audio quality), he said a lot to try and explain himself, which can mean he was on the defensive with you, or that he really wanted to be open as much as possible. Now his explanations could be interpreted in many ways depending on your view of the man himself, interpretation of words and events can be a real bitch, so I’m going to use the old wait and see approach

      I think Meto is trying his best, but the community is not 100% behind him as we know

      I believe he is a good man, but for many that may not be enough. Many people I know want someone who will say loud and clear that we do not want the name negotiations with Greece to continue, he at this time is not delivering this message as I understand it

      I’m still open to UMD. I feel some adjustments need to be made in its policy, but I do think the vehicle or framework that is UMD is a good one. It has established itself a seemingly vast network of important contacts because of hard work done over many years, and this should not be wasted

      The organization should always seek further input and development of it’s policies, you can always improve
      The one who tells the story rules the World - Hopi proverb

      “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only meant that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark” - Monty Python

      Comment

      • UMDiaspora.org
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 525

        Plagiarism?

        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
        In Meto’s original flyer outlining his tour of Australia (which has been replaced), he claimed that he had written an opinion piece in The Age, a Melbourne based newspaper. Can UMD provide a copy of this “opinion piece”?

        Or was the article in question actually a paid advertisement authored primarily by Igor Aleksandrov (and primarily funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney with donations from other Australian Macedonian organisations and individuals) with input from myself in response to the Greek rally in Melbourne in November 2007?

        If this is the case, can UMD explain why it attempted to mislead the public and credit the advertisement to Meto as an opinion piece, when in fact it was a paid advertisement that Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski actually opposed because they felt it was “too nationalistic” to state the fact that Greece occupied southern Macedonia in 1913 and refused to put UMD’s name to the piece (a decision which I took the liberty to override) along with all the major Australian Macedonian sponsors?
        Mr. Vangelovski, are you referring to The Australian advertisement? We suggest you get your facts straight before spreading outright lies and false allegations about UMD. UMD has never plagiarized anything, so your assertions are quite serious offenses and slander.

        UMD, the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney, the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia, and other organizations co-sponsored an advertisement in May 2007, not November. The advertisement was published in The Australian the same day of former Greek Prime Minister Karamanlis' visit to Australia, and not in response to some Melbourne Greek rally.

        The advertisement was originally initiated by UMD, and primarily championed by Ljupco Stankovski of the Australian Macedonian Weekly, a very strong supporter and member of UMD. It was Mr. Stankovski that contacted the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney to join UMD in this initiative, and MOCS paid half of the funds needed for the advertisement. Whereas, Mr. Stankovski raised the other half through the various other organizations who donated and some individuals including himself. UMD authored/drafted the original text, and the various organizations sponsoring the advertisement had additions, and the final text was composed, which was used for the advertisement (the drafting committee did an excellent job). It was agreed upon by all participating sponsoring organizations. UMD never refused to put its name on the advertisement and you make false claims.

        Here is something that may peak your interest about the advertisement written by the Pan-Macedonian Federation of Australia against UMD:

        Greek people is under occupation. Merkel Germany, EC, ECB and IMF try to kill the Greek people by force them in internal default. In order to doing this, they kill the Liberal Democracy. As Pr. Krugman remark: "They now looking at a scenario in which Greece is forced into killing levels of austerity to pay its foreign creditors, with no real light at the end of the tunnel. This is just not going to work."


        On the same day of the advertisement, UMD issued a press release as well regarding the visit of Prime Minister Karamanalis, of which Mr. Vangelovski was the spokesperson for:

        For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

        United Macedonian Diaspora
        http://www.umdiaspora.org

        1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
        Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

        PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
        Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

        3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
        Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

        Comment

        • Volk
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 894

          Shame that there was not more time allowed for Risto's questions/discussions... I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity in Melbourne and Sydney to put some things to rest.

          Ask the hard questions, every doubt that people in the community have about UMD should be explored so everyone can base their opinions straight from the horses mouth.
          Makedonija vo Srce

          Comment

          • UMDiaspora.org
            Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 525

            Thank you Blackcactus and Risto the Great!

            The forum in Adelaide was an excellent opportunity to engage on many topics. We have to stress though there definitely was no pointing of fingers at anyone, just to make that clear. Many individuals had the opportunity to ask questions and really have a dialogue. After the event, individuals were able to discuss with Meto Koloski further on the issues for about an hour after the event ended.

            The community was able to learn about UMD, and equally important, the UMD was able to learn about the community of Adelaide and South Australia. The community, and particularly the youth, are hurting in this community. All are very dedicated, all are hard-working, all believe in the Macedonian cause. But they are villified on a regular basis by racist and absurd comments by the Premier of South Australia. This discrimination resignates not just on a political level, but even in education and healthcare, as one elderly lady mentioned at the forum.

            The community in Adelaide and South Australia has a lot of potential, and we see a very bright future for the community, especially the young generation. UMD held a discussion with the youth today in Adelaide, and we discussed ways for the youth to get more involved in the community.

            Stay tuned for more news on the situation with the Premier of South Australia. We are happy to learn that AMHRC are assisting the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia on this matter. UMD is here to assist as much as we can, and together, United, We Can and will succeed. Premier Rann must formally apologize to our community in South Australia.
            For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

            United Macedonian Diaspora
            http://www.umdiaspora.org

            1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
            Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

            PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
            Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

            3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
            Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              Thanks Meto, I await Vangelovski's response.

              Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org
              .........Ljupco Stankovski of the Australian Macedonian Weekly, a very strong supporter and member of UMD.
              That's good to know. Equally good would be to know if the AMW would publish any articles that go contrary to UMD's assertions.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                Risto the Great, thank you very much for arranging this and taking the time to have them put up on youtube. Also, thank you for your uncompromising and professional representation of the Macedonian Truth Organisation.

                Here is what I have noticed so far:

                - Between 1.05 and 1.25 RtG is told to basically hurry up and get to the question, by, none other than Steve Kostoff, the man who distinguishes himself from Greeks by declaring as a Slav Macedonian. This 'Slav' Kostoff saw it fit to make a mini-drama by speaking in a clearly defensive manner. Meto, did you come out all the way to Australia so that concerned Macedonians can be told to hurry up and get to the question? How pathetic.

                - At 2.36 Meto says that the Macedonian government agreed to Macedonia-Skopje. What evidence is there to corroborate this, Meto?

                - From about 3.30 onwards Meto goes on this rant about how he doesn't engage in public forums on the internet (when he clearly does here) and for the next minute, diverts the response to a defence of his position with the claim that people are twisting his words. Who is twisting your words when you said you find the 'democratic' prefix "acceptable" Meto? And then he asks RtG what he thinks of the suggested prefixes of 'democratic' and 'independent' (!?!?)

                - From around 4.40 onwards, Meto clearly says the following: "I said that the Diaspora may take (?), may accept the name Democratic Republic of Macedonia, to end, the former yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which we all know is ridiculous. And 'democratic', in the end, probably is not so bad (?), but only and I stress this only for NATO, EU and United Nation........" - This statement seems to endorse what he said in the ZMR interview, but then, Meto goes on to say that he made this statement in the early days of activism at a time when the UMD weren't taken seriously! Then he goes back to endorsing the 'democratic' prefix (again) saying that, on the other hand, they will not accept geographic definers, then he goes on to say that "thanks to oganisations like the UMD" the USA recognizes Macedonia. I'm sorry, what exactly was UMD's role in the USA's recognition of Macedonia? The USA recognized Macedonia to silence Macedonian patriotism and put a halt to the referendum that was against territorial divisions taking place. Back to the 'democratic' prefix, at one point Meto even echoes his twin's (TajnataKniga) sentiment by stating that Macedonia is a democratic country afterall!!

                Then Meto goes on to say how, with regard to the framewok agreement, he believes it is against Macedonia's constitution, which is where RtG begins to deliver an assertive and defining message, making it clear that, NO, the Macedonian Diaspora does not accept this agreement that UMD seemingly have in the past, and they do not accept being called 'democratic' Macedonians. And there is Kostoff cutting off RtG again. Pathetic.

                RtG, you spoke well, concise and true, Meto, you seemed uneasy while answering the questions, and you took quite some time in doing so. I didn't see Kostoff rushing you to answer though.

                -----------------------

                My observation, simple. The UMD are prepared to accept a name other than (Republic of) Macedonia, in this case 'democratic', when we sit at the international table of nations. It simply appears that the 'democratic' prefix and the fact that we may have to change our name and lose our dignitiy to appease Greek racists are not 'as important' issues as entering the EU for them. Da vi e stram.

                Meto's idea of a Diaspora organisation is to secure points with the Macedonian government, regardless of who is in power, as opposed to representing the Diaspora's view to the Macedonian government, even when they do not align.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  Is Steve Kostov related to Hari Kostov?? I didnt get the point why Risto was cut off he should have the time to give a proper statement and then ask the questions. I'll let Risto decide how he felt at the time.

                  Either way Spolaj Ti Risto for the footage.
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    Originally posted by Prolet
                    I didnt get the point why Risto was cut off he should have the time to give a proper statement and then ask the questions
                    Shh, you never know who's watching Prolet....
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      SOM, A sto misles Grcine sto pravat?? Identitetine kako na nashite chlenovi im gi objavuvaja?? Jas ne velam da se zatvorime samo da pazime sto zborvame tuka, oti drugite ne snimat mozi i asio gleda od kaj znajme?
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • aleksandrov
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 558

                        Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
                        Mr. Vangelovski, are you referring to The Australian advertisement? We suggest you get your facts straight before spreading outright lies and false allegations about UMD. UMD has never plagiarized anything, so your assertions are quite serious offenses and slander.
                        UMDiaspora,

                        The advertisement Vangelovski is referring to was published in The Age (the same paper that Meto Kolovski is supposed to have published an opinion piece in) and the Sydney Morning Herald simultaneously, by the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia. The only input from UMD was by Tom Vangelovski, as the then Director of UMD's Australian Operations. I asked him if the UMD would endorse the advertisement after I had already written and sent it to him. Prior to that, Tom helped me with some research and suggestions in the drafting process, in his personal capacity. Everything Vangelovski has said about the advertisement in The Age is fundamentally true.

                        But let's not get side-tracked here. The UMD flyer that has sparked this thread states that Meto Koloski (not UMD) has had an opinion piece (not an advertisement) published in The Age (not The Australian). Can you please refer us to that opinion piece by Meto Koloski?
                        Last edited by aleksandrov; 02-08-2010, 07:48 AM.
                        All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                        https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                        Comment

                        • UMDiaspora.org
                          Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 525

                          The Advertiser - Rann's speech outrages Macedonians

                          Last edited by Risto the Great; 02-07-2010, 04:34 PM. Reason: correction to name of publication
                          For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                          United Macedonian Diaspora
                          http://www.umdiaspora.org

                          1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                          Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                          PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                          Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                          3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                          Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            PREMIER Mike Rann has sparked an international diplomatic furore by accusing Macedonia of stealing Greek culture and its leader, Gjorge Ivanov, of "stirring up trouble in the most dangerous way".

                            A videotape of a speech given by the Premier at a the Dimitria Greek festival in the western suburbs in November has sparked outrage across the globe.

                            Washington-based United Macedonian Diaspora president Metodija Koloski flew to Adelaide for a confidential meeting with Multicultural Affairs Minister Michael Atkinson yesterday and delivered a protest letter addressed to Mr Rann.

                            In the controversial speech, Mr Rann affirms his commitment to Adelaide's Greek voters and promises his Government will "remain firm and unswerving in our support for your cause".

                            "It is important because no one is entitled to steal another nation's history or culture," Mr Rann said.

                            "We have a leader in Mr Ivanov who is stirring up trouble in the most dangerous way."

                            Mr Koloski yesterday told The Advertiser that his people had been "slandered" and demanded an unconditional apology.

                            Yesterday, Mr Rann said he would not be "silenced or muzzled" and would "continue to speak out on issues I believe in".
                            Rann remains resolute on this matter. We will test his resolve.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • maslinka
                              Junior Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 19

                              This is my first post, and I would have liked it to have been more constructive, but I smell a rat.

                              As someone who has been sitting back and watching this forum and Maknews as well for quite sometime, I have to say that the timing of the community's outrage smells too manufactured.

                              I mean, Rann's speech happens in December, but the story doesn't come out until UMD just happend to be in Adelaide...please! Was this a strategic ploy to give UMD street cred before its national tour?

                              Also, what a toothless response......all you did was steel the Greek support for Rann. His response was a big F#ck Off to UMD's request for an apology!!!

                              UMD you had a chance to engage with others on the landscape here in Australia, but you failed to produce nothing but self-gratifying dribble!
                              Had you been serious you would have engaed with others in the community. For example, had you referred the Adelaide advertiser to AMHRC's proposed legal action, wouldn't that have been a better outcome for the community? Your organisation's international front plus on the ground action? What an error in judgement on your behalf! There's nothing united about UMD.

                              And to think, all this time I though that a UMD membership would be a good investment in our community in Australia. How wrong I was - you sold me a dummy but now I see clearly, never judge a book by its cover.

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by aleksandrov View Post
                                UMDiaspora,

                                Would you care to ask Mr Stankovski to corroborate your story? Who was on this UMD drafting committee you speak of? Do you have records of the original draft? Do you have any records of correspondence suggesting that the UMD initiated it (I acknowledge that the UMD initiated an earlier advertisement in the Australian, also funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney, but I don't think you want me to get into the difference between the UMD's first draft and what was ultimately published, contrary to the American UMD's wishes)? Could you post a copy of the advertisement here, given that it makes it clear who published and personally "authorized" it?

                                The advertisement in question was published in The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald simultaneously, by the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia. More than half of the cost was paid by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney. The rest was paid by funds raised on behalf of our Association by Ljupco Stankovski from the Australian Macedonian Weekly in Melbourne, from other organizations and businesses that ENDORSED the advertisement. The UMD did not contribute a cent. The only input from UMD was by Tom Vangelovski, as the then Director of Australian Operations. I asked him if the UMD would endorse the advertisement after I had already written and sent it to him. Prior to that, Tom helped me with some research and suggestions in the drafting process, in his personal capacity.

                                The advertisement in The Age was DEFINITELY not initiated by UMD and I received no input whatsoever for the text from any other member of UMD but Tom Vangelovski. Unless you consider telling Tom Vangelovski that it was too nationalistic for UMD to endorse it an input.

                                But let's not get side-tracked here. The UMD flyer that has sparked this thread states that Meto Koloski has had an opinion piece published in The Age. Can you please refer us to that opinion piece by Meto Koloski?
                                I don't really have much more to add than the points raised here by Aleksandrov.

                                I can only reiterate what Aleksandrov said, the issue is Meto's supposed opinion piece in the Age.
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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