Macedonian Orthodox Church - News & Updates

[Vangelovski]

As a Christian, I see the role of the Church as spreading the Good News (the Gospel) - Salvation through Jesus. Seeing as Salvation comes ONLY through Jesus, and not through church membership, let alone "recognition" of your church by another church, I'm not quite sure why the MOC is obsessed with being "recognised" by the SOC??

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, Thats because i posted the video version, i expect people to watch the video on sitel. As for the non Macedonians, well they can translate it for themselves if they cannot speak or read Macedonian.

No, you will provide it in an English version when possible also (and this time it was certainly possible), because there are many Macedonians who cannot read Macedonian yet, and others (Macedonian and non-Macedonian) that don't know how to speak or read it properly. This is a Macedonian forum but we want to encourage as many people as possible to read, and as the English language is the lingua franca of the 21st century, it will most often be used. Do me the courtesy Prolet, I promise that it will take less than a minute of your time, when it is not feasible, at least provide a short translation or summary in English so readers get the jist. Ajde, ne se prai inaetchija

Because most of you got no idea when it comes to church questions but you see it as some political party and political question.

No Komita, it is the Serbs who see it that way. Every Orthodox nation has their own 'national' church, why should we not? Tell me where you stand in this situation, do you think the Serbs should or shouldn't relinquish their imaginary 'rights' to our churches, should or shouldn't they recognise the MOC? Apparently they never will, and if they do, it is supposed to make it easier for the 'helpless' weaklings in Moscow and Constantinople to take the next step. I am interested in your opinion and view on this matter, as I would like to know the Orthodox brotherhood perspective and how it relates to their non-recognition of the MOC, so I would appreciate a response.

Seeing as Salvation comes ONLY through Jesus, and not through church membership, let alone "recognition" of your church by another church, I'm not quite sure why the MOC is obsessed with being "recognised" by the SOC??

Good point, and much aligned with my earlier assertion that we were fine without their 'support' in the past and we will be fine in the future. That being the case, the MOC should start cutting ties with all those unprepared to acknowledge us as human beings, rather than subjecting us to humiliation by watching Petre and Stefanche sucking up to someone who doesn't even want to respect their right to exist.

[Prolet]

SOM, Sure if there is an English version i will post it

SOM, You missed out the most important part of this post and that is why the Serbian ArchBishop pushing to implement the Nish Accord?? We have three Bishops who signed it and Bishop Timotej was one of them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

And these two shupelki of ours are there congratulating him? The famous Nish Accord, back again, and good old Petarche, back in the same picture again. How much faith can the Macedonians have in Stefan when he is seen 'holding hands' with the apparent bishop that wants to sign over Macedonian churches from Australia into his own name?

I wonder if Serbian priests and bishops are taught that the Pec Archbishopric is basically the child of the Ohrid Archbishopric in Macedonia? I wonder if they are taught about all of the literature that came from our land to theirs? Using this sort of 'logic' by historical right, they should belong to us, not the other way around.

[osiris]

i am not sure you need faith, what you need as a human being is knowledge. prolet do you think that spending millions of dollars on legal costs is a reasonable and productive activity for our church. i dont.

[Prolet]

You are dead right Osiris, i'd rather use that money to build child care facilities,nursing homes for our old and social clubs where people can gather up and socialize, be friends,look after eachother etc

SOM, Did you know that before the Ottoman Empire, the main city for the Pravoslavije was in Ohrid?? Just like Carigrad is now for example, it was Ohrid before that. They should be asking us, not the otherway around. We gave them a religion an Alphabet, a Pismo,Traditions and what did we get in return?? I got no problem with ArchBishop Stefan going to Belgrade to congratulate ArchBishop Irinej however he should do so as a foreign ArchBishop not as an Autonomous Serb.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, Did you know that before the Ottoman Empire, the main city for the Pravoslavije was in Ohrid?? Just like Carigrad is now for example, it was Ohrid before that.

It was for many people, but not for everybody. And Constantinople (Tsarigrad) has always been the centre of Eastern Christianity in general, as what Rome is for the Catholics. However, given the autonomous nature of the Archbishopric of Ohrid for centuries on end, and its uneasy relationship with both Rome and Constantinople (often playing both sides against each other when it suited them), it did become the spiritual centre for Macedonians above other religious 'hubs'. Therefore, when Samuel rose up in the 10th century and Marko in the 14th century, it was Ohrid's religious institutions that backed these expressions of local rebellion and solidarity in Macedonia, not the Orthodox Rome known as Constantinople, and certainly not the Pech Archbishopric (it wasn't even in existence during Samuel's reign).

I got no problem with ArchBishop Stefan going to Belgrade to congratulate ArchBishop Irinej however he should do so as a foreign ArchBishop not as an Autonomous Serb.

What do you mean by autonomous Serb? Are you implying that Stefan is openly in favour of the Nish Accord??

[Vangelovski]

i am not sure you need faith, what you need as a human being is knowledge.

this is in relation to?

[Rogi]

Osiris, I disagree with the sentiment against faith and religion itself, as opposed to making the distinction between Churches run by men and Religion, Faith or Belief in God.

I see the Church as very important and much needed, if and only if, it is and remains completely undeviating from it's original purpose.


Consider reading Machiavelli's "Discourses on Livy" to see his views on the importance of religion in the State, despite his personal non religious views. It is very interesting.

[Prolet]

What do you mean by autonomous Serb? Are you implying that Stefan is openly in favour of the Nish Accord??

SOM, Technically the way things stand at this moment we are an Autonomous SPC church just like the MonteNegran Orthodox church is for example. I cant speculate about ArchBishop Stefan however three of his Bishops signed the Nish Accord and he didnt sanction them or at least nothing was given out in public so i'll let you make up your own mind.

I will say that i dont like how things are going at the moment, because the Nish Accord was never implemented and the Serbian ArchBishop is pushing for it which doesnt give us Aftokefalnost at all, we still remain part of the SPC Hierarchy.

[Bill77]

we still remain part of the SPC Hierarchy.

Do we? and what power do they have over us?

[Vangelovski]

SOM, Technically the way things stand at this moment we are an Autonomous SPC church just like the MonteNegran Orthodox church is for example. I cant speculate about ArchBishop Stefan however three of his Bishops signed the Nish Accord and he didnt sanction them or at least nothing was given out in public so i'll let you make up your own mind.

I will say that i dont like how things are going at the moment, because the Nish Accord was never implemented and the Serbian ArchBishop is pushing for it which doesnt give us Aftokefalnost at all, we still remain part of the SPC Hierarchy.

Prolet...some of the stuff you post on here...I just don't know what to make of you?? Where do you get your information from?

[Risto the Great]

we still remain part of the SPC Hierarchy.

If this is the case, I wonder how all the Australian Vladika die-hards would react to the notion that the local community sacrifices now belong to the Serbian church.

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, There is no information its just how things stand, Technically we are an autonomous part of SPC at least thats how the Orthodox World looks at us. In 1967 we broke away from the Serbian Church so we are rebels in their eyes, i want nothing to do with the Serbian Church i want to see a Macedonian Orthodox Church Avtokefalna and independent.

If you think im not correct then by all means give you're opinion, i have no issues if somebody proves me wrong on this topic.

Risto, That is why the Serbian ArchBishop is pushing for the Nish Accord to be implemented that was signed in 2002, why else would he want it implemented?? With the Orthodox Church of MonteNegro the situation is different, when i went to MonteNegro all the churches that i saw had massive Serb flags infront of them, the Serbs have a massive influence there especially in cities like Bar,Sutomore,Kotor,HercegNovi etc the biggest MonteNegran stronghold is in Cetinje which is above Budva. Either way when you ask a MonteNegran what language they speak they will say they speak Serbian.

[Prolet]

I urge people to watch the video of this interview

Мојановски: Патријархот Иринеј ќе донесе нови идеи
Горан Петрески Коментари (0)
23.01.2010 20:19



Каков третман ќе добие македонското црковно прашање од страна на Патријархот Иринеј? На овие и на други прашања во Вестите во А1 Телевизија одговара професорот Цане Мојановски, поранешен претседател на Комисијата за односи со верските заедници.

-Најпрво треба да се упати честитка до неговата светост Патријархот српски Иринеј за изборот и да посакаме да е обдарен со здравје и мудрост, да побара решение или да понуди решение за македонското црковно прашање, и тоа треба да се гледа во неколку нивоа или релации.

-Прво заради потребите на самата православна црква и организирањето на православните христијани на ова подрачје треба да се најде решение. Второ е тоа што тие односи долго ги следат односите меѓу СПЦ и МПЦ, особено после 1967 година, кога се во особено лоша комуникација, и односите не се такви какви што беа меѓу 59 и 67 година. Трето е што во меѓувреме на политичката карта на јужна Европа и во Европа воопшто, настанаа многу поинакви решенија, кои согласно традицијата на православната црква се следени со организирање на самостојни автокефални или други православни цркви.

- Оттаму значи има мноштво од прашања и посебно ако ја земете пораката која што вселенскиот Патријарх Вартоломеј ја упати на погребот на претходниот српски Патријарх, исто така се прашања, односно мотиви кои нас не тераат да размислиме.

Го делите ли мислењето на останатите македонски владици од Синодот, дека Иринеј е најповолниот исход од вчерашното изборно заседание, односно зошто Епископот нишки е подобар избор за МПЦ од Владиката Амфилохие или Епископот Иринеј бачки?

- Ако ги набљудуваме кандидатите како луѓе, тогаш веројатно карактерните особини и отвореноста кон потребата од решавање на прашања веројатно е спецификата која би го издвојувала повеќе од останатите кандидати, иако еден од непосакуваните беше исто така во рамките на идејата за обнова на односите меѓу СПЦ и МПЦ, и несреќно или неуспешно завршениот обид да се склучи Нишката спогодба.

Да но токму Владиката Иринеј се смета за творец на Нишкиот договор. Тој исто така припаѓа на т.н тврдо грчко крило?

- Значи ако го набљудуваме спорот меѓу МПЦ и СПЦ, или прашањето на обновата на Охридската архиепископија, особено после завршувањето на Втората светска војна, ќе видиме дека тоа прашање нужно е поврзано со периоди во коишто имате отворена поддршка на структури од СПЦ, и кои го спорат.

- Исто така тоа прашање секогаш треба да се гледа во контекстот на односите кои што постојат, а најчесто се гледаат во последните години на осамостојувањето на Македонија, околу интересите и односите на соседите кон Македонија, што се рефлектираат низ разни отворени прашања во тој правец.

Зошто тогаш оптимизмот од изборот на новиот Патријарх?

- Затоа што тоа прашање не може да оди до бесконечност, како прашање кое треба да се реши. Уште повеќе што е нарасната свеста во православната црква или меѓу православните цркви, дека тоа прашање и не само тоа прашање, туку и прашањето на црквите кои се организирани во самостојните држави во поранешните Советски републики, во бившите Југословенски републики, е прашање за кое што треба да се обнови.

- Во време кога се обединуваат државите во ЕУ, православните цркви немаат докрај јасен одговор за нивното делување во рамките на ЕУ, и веројатно барањето на тој одговор треба да се гледа во контекстот. Да не заборавиме дека црковните структури, насекаде, припаѓаат на поконзервативната струја на гледиште.

Очекувате ли во овој политички контекст, сега во Европа, на Балканот, да биде решено македонското црковно прашање, пред да биде решен политичкиот спор на името со државата?

- Тоа е тешко да се даде прецизен одговор, но човечки е да се надеваш. Многу индикатори зборуваат дека таа надеж не треба да биде претерана, ни дека е сосем нормално да се надевате дека новите луѓе ќе донесат и нови идеи, и дека тоа прашање е нужно да се решава, се две појдовни точки околу кои човек може да бара аргументи, околу коишто може да го подгрева оптимизмот.

Повеќе од интервјуто погледнете во видеото

http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=119017