Macedonia and the European Union

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  • Tomche Makedonche
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 1123

    Brussels ‘secretly promises’ to quickly begin EU membership talks with Macedonia

    SENIOR eurocrats have secretly promised the leader of Macedonia’s opposition party that they will soon open talks on the country joining the EU, it emerged today.


    REVEALED: Brussels ‘secretly promises’ to quickly begin EU membership talks with Macedonia

    SENIOR eurocrats have secretly promised the leader of Macedonia’s opposition party that they will soon open talks on the country joining the EU, it emerged today

    Brussels foreign affairs chief Federica Mogherini told Zoran Zaev that the bloc will start accession proceedings swiftly if he manages to take power in the coming days.

    She is the second top EU Commission figure to have made the assurance to the social democrat chief, despite the fact that only the heads of the 28 member states have the power to begin negotiations.

    Mr Zaev has formed a majority coalition in the Macedonian parliament following recent elections, but has been unable to take power because president Gjorge Ivanov has vetoed it taking government.

    The president, who is from the same party as ousted former prime minister Nikola Gruevsk, claims that the inclusion of MPs from an ethnic Albanian party makes the coalition a threat to the country’s sovereingty.

    But Mr Zaev has dismissed the claims as “nonsense” and says the real reason the pair are clinging to power is to save themselves from criminal prosecution over their action in government.

    Italian eurocrat Ms Mogherini visited Macedonia last Thursday, and Mr Zaev last night revealed she had “promised” him she would start EU membership talks if he can break the impasse.

    During a speech whilst in the country, she said: “It would be impossible for anyone to convince anyone in the democratic world that a majority of MPs that represent the majority of citizens in a unitary state cannot be allowed to form a government.

    "This breaks the spirit of democracy. This is inconsistent with basic democratic principles and with the Euro-Atlantic integration process.”

    In contrast the current Macedonian government is being openly backed by Vladimir Putin, with the Kremlin accusing the EU of meddling in other countries’ politics.

    EU Commission officials were today tight-lipped on Mr Zaev’s remarks, insisting that they would not comment on the private remarks of their officials.

    Answering a question from a Macedonian journalist, spokeswoman Maja Kocijančič said: “The Commission recommendation to open negotiations with your country is conditional on the country’s implementing the provisional agreement and urgent reform priorities.

    “Opening of accession negotiations when these conditions are met is a decision for the Council.”

    Brussels has set its sights on bringing the entire Western Balkans region into the EU club, including Serbia, Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    However, EU chief Jean-Claude Juncker has insisted that none of the candidate states will join the bloc before his mandate as Commission president ends in 2019.

    On top of that, all 28 current member states each wield an all-powerful veto over any future admissions to the bloc.
    “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      Sure, why not.
      Sounds totally plausible and we can definitely rely on the integrity of all concerned. And pigs play the tapani.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Redsun
        Member
        • Jul 2013
        • 409

        EU should introduce sanctions to Macedonia’s President Ivanov

        Opinion: EU should introduce sanctions to Macedonia’s President Ivanov
        SKOPJE – If the EU wants to be taken seriously and reclaim some of the lost credibility in the Western Balkans, it must make a tough and somewhat shocking move and introduce sanctions for Macedonia’s President Ivanov. Sanctions are a tool for realizing the objectives set in the Common Foreign...


        SKOPJE - If the EU wants to be taken seriously and reclaim some of the lost credibility in the Western Balkans, it must make a tough and somewhat shocking move and introduce sanctions for Macedonia’s President Ivanov.

        Sanctions are a tool for realizing the objectives set in the Common Foreign and Security Policy of the European Union. The Treaty on European Union defines the over-arching goals of the EU towards external actors, and “consolidate and support democracy” is pretty high on that list. Given the latest developments in Macedonia, there is absolutely no argument left that President Ivanov might not be wreaking havoc on the fragile democracy of the Republic of Macedonia.

        After the elections last year in December, the President awarded the mandate to the party with the highest number of MPs, VMRO DPMNE. This is a common practice in Macedonia, even though the Constitution doesn’t strictly instruct for it. Instead, the Constitution stipulates that the President awards the mandate to the leader of the party that has a majority in Parliament. With VMRO DPMNE winning 51 seats and the Social Democrats 49 out of 120 seats, no one had a majority without the smaller parties.

        VMRO DPMNE failed to secure a majority within the constitutional time limitations, and had to return the mandate. The President of the Social Democrats, Mr Zaev, went and asked President Ivanov for the mandate. President Ivanov told him to go and come back with the signatures of majority of MPs, and only then he would be awarded the mandate, a demand that was not made to VMRO DPMNE and that is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

        Zaev returned with 67 signatures (out of 120), and President Ivanov refused to give him the mandate. The excuse was the supposed acceptance of a political platform signed in Tirana by the smaller political parties with an ethnic Albanian denomination. However, even though these parties confirmed that Gruevski and VMRO DPMNE had accepted all the conditions of the Tirana platform well before the Social Democrats even discussed them, it never stopped President Ivanov from awarding the mandate to Gruevski.

        So, after months of painful political limbo, Macedonia is without a government, with a series of protests orchestrated by VMRO DPMNE to supposedly “protect” Macedonia and with local elections right behind the corner. The hate speech has escalated to such a level that individual hate incidents take place almost on a daily basis. Journalists, professors, MPs are being virtually, verbally and even physically attacked. The last in a line of incidents is the attack on the driver of a Turkish diplomat who tried to stop the removal of a Turkish flag from the car. As always, the perpetrators of hate crimes make no sense at all.

        President Ivanov has disrespected and intentionally disrupted one of the basic principles of democracy, the peaceful transfer of power. By doing this, he has acted in violation with the Constitution and has pushed the country to the brink of a serious security danger. The EU must act decisively and impose sanctions on his movement and freeze his personal funds.

        There is a precedent for this. In 2011, the EU adopted a Decision for sanctions on any individuals who violate the Constitution or threaten the security situation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Decision had an expiry date in 2016, and was prolonged until 31st of March, 2017.

        The crisis in Macedonia of the past two years has proven, over and over again that Macedonia’s institutions and system are not capable of fighting the cancerous cells. Even though the Constitution and laws are not officially suspended, they are breached by the President, the number one person in the country who is supposed to uphold them.

        Imposing sanctions on Ivanov will not send a message to Macedonia only. There are dangerous tendencies brewing in the region, and the EU needs to set an example in Macedonia for everyone else.

        Serbia is in the middle of an election where Prime Minister Vucic is one of the candidates for President. According to the Constitution of Serbia, the President proposes a candidate for President of the Government to the Assembly, after having heard the opinion of all those whose electoral lists were elected. If the EU doesn’t act decisively now and given Vucic’s growing influence on media, who can guarantee Serbia won’t repeat Macedonia’s scenario?

        At the same time, the EU needs to retrieve its status of a player in the Western Balkans, after so many failures. The EU granted Macedonia recommendations for start of negotiations for years while VMRO DPMNE ruled and captured every single institution of the Republic. The EU failed to induce constitutional changes in Bosnia and Herzegovina, despite the decision of the European Court for Human Rights and the empty ultimatums by the EU. If the EU wants to continue to have a say in the Western Balkans, it needs to step up its game.

        Finally, as a Macedonian, this is one of the morally most-difficult arguments I’ve had to make. Arguing for international sanctions on your President is anything but a straight case. But, what is true for individuals, can be applied to countries as well. If we love them, we must help them fight the disease, even when the medication is painful.

        President Ivanov is a disease to democracy in Macedonia.

        Comment

        • mklion
          Member
          • Jun 2014
          • 100

          The EU has been dangling the Euro carrot in Macedonias face since independence. I feel that they have no intention to have Macedonia in the EU. The issue here is Macedonia is stuck really. They can't become a member of the EU and Macedonia isn't allowed to deal with Russia or China for economic benefit as everytime we do we get in trouble (ie oil pipeline from Russia )

          Just to put some perspective on things here Turkey submitted their application to become a member of the EU in 1987 which was 30 years ago and even they don't have a date for accession talks.

          Comment

          • Redsun
            Member
            • Jul 2013
            • 409

            What are EU membership requirements?

            Perhaps applications are accepted when the EU considers it economically viable for itself.

            If this report was correct, Why now? Why do they offer this now to SDSM and not VMRO? Bias.

            Why would they change their stance now when there is talk of instability within the country? Is the EU that irresponsible.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              Originally posted by Redsun View Post
              Why would they change their stance now when there is talk of instability within the country? Is the EU that irresponsible.
              Here is a clue.
              There is no change of stance.
              Nobody but Zaev is saying this.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Gocka
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 2306

                That's one possibility. Or they are letting this "rumor" fester out in the open on purpose to entice Macedonians to go along with Zaev and the Albanian platform. They do this kind of thing every time there is a decisive moment in the country relating to the Albanians. Think back to past referendums and how out of the blue some big announcement would happen the night before the vote.

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                Here is a clue.
                There is no change of stance.
                Nobody but Zaev is saying this.

                Comment

                • Tomche Makedonche
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 1123

                  Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                  That's one possibility. Or they are letting this "rumor" fester out in the open on purpose to entice Macedonians to go along with Zaev and the Albanian platform.
                  Half of Macedonians are already going along with Zajko and the Albanian platform.
                  “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                  Comment

                  • vicsinad
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 2337

                    Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                    Half of Macedonians are already going along with Zajko and the Albanian platform.
                    If you mean ethnic Macedonians, do you have poll numbers or any other objective evidence that suggest half of Macedonians support the Albanian platform?

                    Comment

                    • Tomche Makedonche
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2011
                      • 1123

                      Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                      If you mean ethnic Macedonians, do you have poll numbers or any other objective evidence that suggest half of Macedonians support the Albanian platform?
                      Well if they don't oppose it, I can only assume they support it, or prioritise other matters above the implementation of the Tirana platform. As for my objective evidence, it is their silence.
                      “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                      Comment

                      • vicsinad
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 2337

                        Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                        Well if they don't oppose it, I can only assume they support it, or prioritise other matters above the implementation of the Tirana platform. As for my objective evidence, it is their silence.
                        According to this logic, silence on a topic can either indicate someone's position on the matter or how highly he prioritizes the topic. So if I were to go through this forum and find all topics you have been silent on since joining the forum, it would be fair of me to make an assumption about your stance on those topics or how you prioritize the substance of those topics?

                        How do you get to this number of "half of Macedonians"? Is it by the number of protesters who show up to vote (which is less than half of who voted for DPNE, so you could say that half of DPNE supporters are silent, which might mean that 3/4 of Macedonians support the Tirana platform)? Or is it by how many people voted for which party (which, if you count all ethnic Macedonian SDS supporters, you likely don't surpass 350,000, which is no where close to half of ethnic Macedonians)?

                        How do you know half of Macedonians are silent? Whose ears do they have to reach for them to no longer be silent -- the media's? Yours? Mine? What do they have to do or say -- and who do they have to say it to and who do they have to do it in front of -- in order not to be silent?

                        These are claims you are making about our fellow Macedonians. I think if we're going to make such damning claims, then they better be backed by more than assumptions of silence.
                        Last edited by vicsinad; 03-29-2017, 01:34 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Gocka
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 2306

                          You took the words out of my mouth. To play devils advocate, I think TM is referring to the fact that SDSM got roughly half the vote, even if we take that, a good chunk of SDSM voters were Albanian.

                          Just through observation, I think TM isn't too far off base. Hardcore SDSM voters, similar to hardcore Trump voters, will back their guy to hell and back, no matter what he does. Then you have the economic SDSM voters who prioritze Europe and the Economy over ethnic issues. That leaves you with the change voters, they seem to also favor SDSM despite the platform and they legitimize this position in a similar way that NIKO does, that DPMNE also accepts this platform, so I'd rather get change out of the deal. Maybe 100% of SDSM voters are not okay with Tirana platform, but I wouldn't doubt if 65-75% are okay with it. This still doesn't constitute half of Macedonians but I get where he's coming from.

                          This is an opportune moment for a third option to arise purely on opposition to the Tirana platform. SDSM voters want change and may favor a third party as long as its not DPMNE. Then the hard part is convincing brainwashed DPMNE voters that they have been more pro Albanian than anyone.

                          Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                          According to this logic, silence on a topic can either indicate someone's position on the matter or how highly he prioritizes the topic. So if I were to go through this forum and find all topics you have been silent on since joining the forum, it would be fair of me to make an assumption about your stance on those topics or how you prioritize the substance of those topics?

                          How do you get to this number of "half of Macedonians"? Is it by the number of protesters who show up to vote (which is less than half of who voted for DPNE, so you could say that half of DPNE supporters are silent, which might mean that 3/4 of Macedonians support the Tirana platform)? Or is it by how many people voted for which party (which, if you count all ethnic Macedonian SDS supporters, you likely don't surpass 350,000, which is no where close to half of ethnic Macedonians)?

                          How do you know half of Macedonians are silent? Whose ears do they have to reach for them to no longer be silent -- the media's? Yours? Mine? What do they have to do or say -- and who do they have to say it to and who do they have to do it in front of -- in order not to be silent?

                          These are claims you are making about our fellow Macedonians. I think if we're going to make such damning claims, then they better be backed by more than assumptions of silence.

                          Comment

                          • Tomche Makedonche
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2011
                            • 1123

                            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                            According to this logic, silence on a topic can either indicate someone's position on the matter or how highly he prioritizes the topic. So if I were to go through this forum and find all topics you have been silent on since joining the forum, it would be fair of me to make an assumption about your stance on those topics or how you prioritize the substance of those topics?

                            How do you get to this number of "half of Macedonians"? Is it by the number of protesters who show up to vote (which is less than half of who voted for DPNE, so you could say that half of DPNE supporters are silent, which might mean that 3/4 of Macedonians support the Tirana platform)? Or is it by how many people voted for which party (which, if you count all ethnic Macedonian SDS supporters, you likely don't surpass 350,000, which is no where close to half of ethnic Macedonians)?

                            How do you know half of Macedonians are silent? Whose ears do they have to reach for them to no longer be silent -- the media's? Yours? Mine? What do they have to do or say -- and who do they have to say it to and who do they have to do it in front of -- in order not to be silent?

                            These are claims you are making about our fellow Macedonians. I think if we're going to make such damning claims, then they better be backed by more than assumptions of silence.
                            Yeah sorry Vic, you’re right. I guess in a few month’s time when the Tirana Platform has been implemented, Macedonians can take solace in knowing they were all really against its implementation, just like they all know their country’s name is really Macedonia when they are addressed as FYROM at all formal international occasions.

                            Macedonians must feel blissfully fortunate to know that they can always rely on other Macedonians to defend their inaction no matter the circumstance. When they allowed the flag to be changed, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when they allowed the name to be changed, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when they walk out in the Olympic games under FYROM, Macedonian defenders are there to have their back; when they agreed to the Framework Agreement, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when the allowed SDS and DPNE to implement the Framework agreement over the past 16 years, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; and now when SDS implements the Tirana Platform, and we subsequently debate amongst each other about how and why it all went wrong, at least those Macedonians, who really know their country is Macedonia , can look back at this thread at the time when they actually had a chance to stop it and praise one of their heroes who had their back then, sticking up for them no matter what:

                            Vicsinad – Defender of the Macedonians, or rather:

                            Vicsinad - Mbrojtës i Maqedonasve

                            Sorry Albo I used Google translate for the Albanian, can you let us know if that is the correct way to say it, I assume Vicsinad is going to need to brush up on his Albanian in order to continue his role as Defender of the Macedonians
                            Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 03-29-2017, 07:16 PM.
                            “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                            Comment

                            • Gocka
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2012
                              • 2306

                              Easy now, that's a bit harsh. Vicsinad is as decent of a person as they come, and very patriotic. I think what Vic means is that time are tense, there is a lot of information and misinformation out there and maybe us jumping on the backs of our countrymen is counterproductive.

                              Macedonians in ROM can't win. If they come out and protest, then they are DPMNE goons according to NIKO, if they support SDSM then they are traitors according to TM. If they stay silent then they must agree with SDSM anyway.

                              What we really want from them is obviously to kick both parties to the curb and take down the whole system, but its not in their DNA, they don't know where to start. Macedonia desperately needs enlightened outside agitators to light a fire under their collective ass. This is what I meant when I said they lack morality, some moral fiber that pushes them to stand up for themselves.

                              Whats funny is both of you despise SDSM and DPMNE but are too caught up in technicalities to realize you both want the same thing.

                              Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                              Yeah sorry Vic, you’re right. I guess in a few month’s time when the Tirana Platform has been implemented, Macedonians can take solace in knowing they were all really against its implementation, just like they all know their country’s name is really Macedonia when they are addressed as FYROM at all formal international occasions.

                              Macedonians must feel blissfully fortunate to know that they can always rely on other Macedonians to defend their inaction no matter the circumstance. When they allowed the flag to be changed, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when they allowed the name to be changed, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when they walk out in the Olympic games under FYROM, Macedonian defenders are there to have their back; when they agreed to the Framework Agreement, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; when the allowed SDS and DPNE to implement the Framework agreement over the past 16 years, Macedonian defenders were there to have their back; and now when SDS implements the Tirana Platform, and we subsequently debate amongst each other about how and why it all went wrong, at least those Macedonians, who really know their country is Macedonia , can look back at this thread at the time when they actually had a chance to stop it and praise one of their heroes who had their back then, sticking up for them no matter what:

                              Vicsinad – Defender of the Macedonians, or rather:

                              Vicsinad - Mbrojtës i Maqedonasve

                              Sorry Albo I used Google translate for the Albanian, can you let us know if that is the correct way to say it, I assume Vicsinad is going to need to brush up on his Albanian in order to continue his role as Defender of the Macedonians

                              Comment

                              • Tomche Makedonche
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2011
                                • 1123

                                Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                                Easy now, that's a bit harsh. Vicsinad is as decent of a person as they come, and very patriotic. I think what Vic means is that time are tense, there is a lot of information and misinformation out there and maybe us jumping on the backs of our countrymen is counterproductive.
                                I know Vic is a decent person, and I don’t question his patriotism. I also know that his heart may be in the right place, but I think he needs to take into account the consequences of who and what he is defending, irrespective of the why.

                                Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                                Macedonians in ROM can't win. If they come out and protest, then they are DPMNE goons according to NIKO, if they support SDSM then they are traitors according to TM. If they stay silent then they must agree with SDSM anyway.
                                They are traitors if they also support DPNE in my view. I’m not asking or expecting anyone to support either party. I am simply imploring Macedonians to look at the reality of what’s in front of them right now and capitalise on the opportunity to unite to fight against its implementation, before it’s too late. This is an issue that needs to be treated above party politics or allegiances.

                                Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                                What we really want from them is obviously to kick both parties to the curb and take down the whole system, but its not in their DNA, they don't know where to start. Macedonia desperately needs enlightened outside agitators to light a fire under their collective ass. This is what I meant when I said they lack morality, some moral fiber that pushes them to stand up for themselves.

                                Whats funny is both of you despise SDSM and DPMNE but are too caught up in technicalities to realize you both want the same thing.
                                The problem actually is Macedonians focusing on the technicalities and prioritising them over the sovereignty of their own country. This has always been one of the major barriers to them uniting for the good of their nation.
                                Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 03-29-2017, 08:19 PM.
                                “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                                Comment

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