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Old 02-22-2009, 12:48 AM   #31
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I have a book on Kiril Pejcinovic's works in his native Macedonian dialect, i think "Ogledalo" was one of his most well known works, i can publish some up if you guys would like to see some?
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:01 AM   #32
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Yes Please VMRO.
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:10 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Risto,

Brgo/u and Brzo are both used, I think the latter is more common in literary, also depends on the context.

Lepa is also used by Russians to form part of another word, but still having the same meaning. If I had never read it in these texts, I would think it is a loan also, but just like the word Fala, while not overwhelmingly present it still exists in Macedonian dialects well before Serb and/or Yugoslav occupation.

I have heard some others from Lerinsko also use Ezik rather than Jazik, Istina rather than Vistina, which I find interesting because those variants seem to be more prevalent in the eastern Macedonian dialects.
Usta/Mutska = Mouth
Usni/Mutski = lips

Set is not a typo, it is a characteristic used in several dialects and by Misirkov also in words such as Mozhit, Trebit, etc, I have a relative that says 'Ne set doma' rather than 'Ne se doma'.

Zashcho or Zoshcho is a Macedonian characteristic (shch). In Old Slavonic it was чьто (ch'to), which evolved into што (shto) in South Slavic, while Macedonian also retained шчо (shcho) from which the шо (sho) used today comes from. It has been suggested that by using the letter щ the Miladinov brother's were intending to demonstrate that characteristic, as it is used in their native Struga also.
the mozhit, trebit, imat, nemat etc is a charateristic mostly from the Ohrid region.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:12 AM   #34
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Kuzman Shapkarev was a Macedonian literary figure who promoted his work via Bulgarian channels as many others of his time, due to the lack of such Macedonian channels and the growing sway of the Exarchate and free Bulgaria. Putting his questionable political convictions aside, the songs he recorded in Macedonia are an important compilation and testiment to our living Macedonian dialects that exist till today.

Check this link (disregard the propagandist website it is posted on):

http://www.promacedonia.org/ksh_4/index.html

Songs from all over Macedonia, Bitola, Lerin, Solun, Kostur, Voden, etc
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diabolical View Post
the mozhit, trebit, imat, nemat etc is a charateristic mostly from the Ohrid region.
Interestingly, people in Slavej, Prilepsko, also use it, as well as many from Krushevo.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:33 AM   #36
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Below is a story recorded by Kuzman Shapkarev in Salonika village of Gradobor, it is called The Kid and the Kingly Daughter.

In Cyrillic:
Quote:
Еднò дèте и еднà сèстра зèли едѝн вòл и отѝшле на ормàнот.
Като отѝшле тàм, го заклàле на вòлът. Дошлà мèчката и посакàла мèсо. Тѝе му речèли: «Ако ни дàдеш еднò мèче, ки ти дàдеме мèсо.» Мèчката му дадèла еднò мèче и ѝ дàле мèсо. Сèдне дошлà лисѝцата и реклà: «Дàйте ми мèсо.» Йе казàли: «Ако ни дàдеш еднò лисѝче, ке ти дàдеме мèсо.» Онà му дадèла еднò лисѝче и йè дàдели мèсо. Дòшъл и въ̀лкът и òн сакàл мèсо. Они му речèли: «Ако ни дàдеш едно въ̀лче, ки ти дàдеме мèсо». Му дадèле мèсо, а òн му дадèл и на дèтто и на сестрà му по еднò въ̀лче. От нèколку годѝни мèчката (мечето) се чинѝла кòлкуто едѝн бѝвол, въ̀лкът (вълчето) се чинѝло колку едно магàре, а лисѝцата (лисичето) се чинѝла кòлкуто един въ̀лк.

Дèтто, като ’и зел кучѝнята (гореречените животни), отѝшле да се шèтат. Зèл я̀ и на сèстра му (си), и като видèли там едѝн конàк голèм, я̀ качѝл на сестрà му гòре и зèл он кучѝнята и отѝшъл да шèта. Като видèл да лèтат едѝн булю̀к чàвки, се помолѝл на бòга: «Гòсподи бòже, вѝйе да ми дàдеш òвце!» И дòр да йè изрèче лакардѝйта, чàвките станàле òвце. Сèдне тòй ’и пасèл òвцете. Тàм, на конàкът, седèл едѝн келèш. Като видèл момàта, йè речèл: «Ка ки дòйди брàт ти, да му рèчеш да ’и остàви тỳка кучѝнята.» Като дòшъл брàт му (ѝ), момàта му кàзала: «Остави тỳка кучѝнята.» Дèтето ѝ речèло: «Зашчò да ’и остàвам? Гòспод ни дàл и òвце.» Сèдне ’и остàвил кучѝнята. Она ’и върдзàла со синджѝри я̀ки — му кладèле на ỳшите бубàкь, за да не му се слỳша.

Дèтто пàк отѝшъл къде òвцете. Келèшът отѝшъл къде дèтто и му речèл: «Сèга я̀з на тèбка ки те я̀дам.» Дèтто казàло: «Чèкай да òдъм да се помòлям на бòга да ми прòсти грèховете.» Като отѝшъл на еднò дъ̀рво и викнъ̀л: «Мèчко, въ̀лк, лисѝце! Келèш ме изедè!» Тѝйе, като чỳли, скинàли синджѝрето и отѝшли, та го изедèли на келèшът. Сèдне дèтто пàк рèкло: «Гòсподи бòже, шчо бèха вѝя, пàк да се чѝнит.» Дòр да изрèче лакардѝйта, òвцете станàли чàвки и летнàли.

Сèдне дèтто и сестрàта оставѝле конàкът. Въ̀лкът, лисѝцата и мèчката казàле: «Вàа мòма на тèбка ки те я̀де.» Сèдне и на нèя я̀ направѝле, как го направѝле на келèшът. Дèтто си зèл кучѝнята и отѝшъл да шèта. Като се приближѝл до еднà чèшма, видèл еднà мòма, че стòи до чèшмата. Йè казàл на момàта: «Зашчò стòиш тỳка?» А òна му рèкла: «Лàмята катъ дèн я̀де по еднà мòма и за товà и я̀з тỳка стòям, да ме я̀де.» Дèтто йè казàл: «Фòди си сèа тѝ.» Мòмата му рèкла: «Не си òдам, зашчò лàмята ки зàтне чèшмата и не ке ѝма да пѝйме вòда.» Дèтто йе рèкло: «Дѝльму не си òдиш, пòшчи ме сèа тѝ и ка ки дòйде лàмята, кàжи ми.» Като я видèла, че ѝде лàмята, зафатѝла да плàче и му капнàла на дèтто еднà съ̀лдза и станъ̀л. Дèтто йè рèкъл на мèчката, на въ̀лкът и на лисѝцата: «А, да вè вѝдам сèга, шчò пари врèдите?» Като йè фатѝле на лàмята, я изедèли и си отѝшли. Като чỳл цàрът, че йе отепàле лàмята, рèкъл: «Викнàйте го тò, шо я̀ утепàл лàмята!» Като отѝшъл дèтто при цàрът, му казàл: «Язка йъ̀ утепàх.» И цàрът му я̀ дадèл кèрката му и дèтто си отѝшъл.
English letters transliteration:
Quote:
Ednò dète i ednà sèstra zèli edìn vòl i otìshle na ormànot. Kato otìshle tàm, go zaklàle na vòl't. Doshlà mèchkata i posakàla mèso. Tìe mu rechèli: «Ako ni dàdesh ednò mèche, ki ti dàdeme mèso.» Mèchkata mu dadèla ednò mèche i ì dàle mèso. Sèdne doshlà lisìtsata i reklà: «Dàyte mi mèso.» Ye kazàli: «Ako ni dàdesh ednò lisìche, ke ti dàdeme mèso.» Onà mu dadèla ednò lisìche i yè dàdeli mèso. Dòsh'l i v'lk't i òn sakàl mèso. Oni mu rechèli: «Ako ni dàdesh edno v'lche, ki ti dàdeme mèso». Mu dadèle mèso, a òn mu dadèl i na dètto i na sestrà mu po ednò v'lche. Ot nèkolku godìni mèchkata (mecheto) se chinìla kòlkuto edìn bìvol, v'lk't (v'lcheto) se chinìlo kolku edno magàre, a lisìtsata (lisicheto) se chinìla kòlkuto edin v'lk.

Dètto, kato ’i zel kuchìnyata (gorerechenite zhivotni), otìshle da se shètat. Zèl yà i na sèstra mu (si), i kato vidèli tam edìn konàk golèm, yà kachìl na sestrà mu gòre i zèl on kuchìnyata i otìsh'l da shèta. Kato vidèl da lètat edìn bulyùk chàvki, se pomolìl na bòga: «Gòspodi bòzhe, vìye da mi dàdesh òvtse!» I dòr da yè izrèche lakardìyta, chàvkite stanàle òvtse. Sèdne tòy ’i pasèl òvtsete. Tàm, na konàk't, sedèl edìn kelèsh. Kato vidèl momàta, yè rechèl: «Ka ki dòydi bràt ti, da mu rèchesh da ’i ostàvi tuka kuchìnyata.» Kato dòsh'l bràt mu (ì), momàta mu kàzala: «Ostavi tuka kuchìnyata.» Dèteto ì rechèlo: «Zashchò da ’i ostàvam? Gòspod ni dàl i òvtse.» Sèdne ’i ostàvil kuchìnyata. Ona ’i v'rdzàla so sindzhìri yàki — mu kladèle na ushite bubàk', za da ne mu se slusha.

Dètto pàk otìsh'l k'de òvtsete. Kelèsh't otìsh'l k'de dètto i mu rechèl: «Sèga yàz na tèbka ki te yàdam.» Dètto kazàlo: «Chèkay da òd'm da se pomòlyam na bòga da mi pròsti grèhovete.» Kato otìsh'l na ednò d'rvo i vikn'l: «Mèchko, v'lk, lisìtse! Kelèsh me izedè!» Tìye, kato chuli, skinàli sindzhìreto i otìshli, ta go izedèli na kelèsh't. Sèdne dètto pàk rèklo: «Gòspodi bòzhe, shcho bèha vìya, pàk da se chìnit.» Dòr da izrèche lakardìyta, òvtsete stanàli chàvki i letnàli.

Sèdne dètto i sestràta ostavìle konàk't. V'lk't, lisìtsata i mèchkata kazàle: «Vàa mòma na tèbka ki te yade.» Sèdne i na nèya yà napravìle, kak go napravìle na kelèsh't. Dètto si zèl kuchìnyata i otìsh'l da shèta. Kato se priblizhìl do ednà chèshma, vidèl ednà mòma, che stòi do chèshmata. Yè kazàl na momàta: «Zashchò stòish tuka?» A òna mu rèkla: «Làmyata kat' dèn yàde po ednà mòma i za tovà i yàz tuka stòyam, da me yàde.» Dètto yè kazàl: «Fòdi si sèa tì.» Mòmata mu rèkla: «Ne si òdam, zashchò làmyata ki zàtne chèshmata i ne ke ìma da pìyme vòda.» Dètto ye rèklo: «Dìl'mu ne si òdish, pòshchi me sèa tì i ka ki dòyde làmyata, kàzhi mi.» Kato ya vidèla, che ìde làmyata, zafatìla da plàche i mu kapnàla na dètto ednà s'ldza i stan'l. Dètto yè rèk'l na mèchkata, na v'lk't i na lisìtsata: «A, da vè vìdam sèga, shchò pari vrèdite?» Kato yè fatìle na làmyata, ya izedèli i si otìshli. Kato chul tsàr't, che ye otepàle làmyata, rèk'l: «Viknàyte go tò, sho yà utepàl làmyata!» Kato otìsh'l dètto pri tsàr't, mu kazàl: «Yazka y' utepàh.» I tsàr't mu yà dadèl kèrkata mu i dètto si otìsh'l.
This was recorded during the late 19th century, after decades of Exarchate and Bulgarian propaganda and influence. How many of our Macedonians from the south find this easy enough to read? It is no problem for me using the Bitola dialect as a basis, there are only a few words that are different and the silent vowel is used more frequently. All in all, easily recognized as a Macedonian dialect.
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Old 03-07-2009, 04:32 PM   #37
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Quite easy to read.
In fact, it is nice to see where some of my language confusion comes from. Slight differences in the way I say things in my dialect are supported in this text.
I would say this is infinitely easier for me to read than the Skopjan dialects.
Even though both Skopje and Solun are probably equivalent in distance from my people.

Bring back "yazka" .... yay!
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
the Skopjan dialects
That's it mate, you're out of here!
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:04 PM   #39
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.........................................
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:15 PM   #40
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.........................................
Strangely nowadays ... I was actually referring to Skopje.

OK, northern vs eastern dialects. Far more palatable.

Anything notable in the text for you SoM?

I had never heard "im" before reading modern texts and always use only "mu" (as in this text).

"ki te" vs "ke ti" ... always messes with my head. I used to say "ki te" ... now I use both! Maybe there is a rule I don't know about.

Зашчò стòиш тỳка? = music to my ears.
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