Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations

[osiris]

wake up demos you dont represnt greece you represent only you. at your next greek church service ask a few of the parishoners how they feel about expanding greek broders to their "historical" positions.

[Demos]

What did I write that was so far fetched.

All I wrote was this.

The language of Christianity in south east Europe since about 323 AD has been in Macedonian, not Greek.

Macedonia was a Church-State, and Empire.

The Church was responsible for running schools, education, law etc since about 323 AD in the Macedonian language, not Greek.

It is a fact that the Bible was translated from Latin and Koine (not Greek) by Ciril and Metodi to a language the averge Macedonians could understand. The Church did this - and the Macedonian Christian Church was the head of the Macedonians for over a thousand years.

Pelister,

Your theory or idea is:

1. Baseless
2. Lacks historical proof or evidence
3. Can never be substantiated by any means
4. Is highly speculative with flawed logic

What's next? Jesus Christ is Macedonian too?...

[Pelister]

hell the russian ukranian belo russian rumanian serbian bulgarian even for a short period of time croatian churches were not speaking in greek in their religious services since the adoption of old macedonian as their liturgical languge, compare this with the paltry sum of greek speakers during that same period.

What I'm getting from the book "Macedonian Revelation" is that the Macedonians had a civilization based on the Christian faith - the language of Christians in south east Europe, was in Macedonian, not Greek, and this makes sense. Hence, we have a Macedonian Christian Empire.

What Bogov is saying in contast is that the New Greeks had no civilization. They spent a hundred years burning everything they found, renaming the Macedonian monasteries everywhere they went, including on "Mt Athos" ...etc, and giving the Macedonian Christian tradition a "Hellenic" character.

[Coolski]

Coolski,

Stop saying nonsense. As I said before, what incentive does Greece have to invade MOD? I mean, what? Greek businesses have already acquired many businesses in Macedonia without one shot being fired. We have invested over 1 billion euros in that country.

Why in the hell would we invade a foreign country composed of people who are not Greek, but instead Macedonian and Albanian who speak a foreign tongue, and have no relation to Greece or anything Greek whatsoever?

What are we go gain? A couple farms in Bitola and Skopje? We can buy anything we want. Case closed. This talk about Greece invading other countries is so out of touch with reality that whoever is advocating such views should check in with their doctor.

Why should one Greek soldier die for something we do not want or we do not care for. You have your own country, your own Parliament, and all the benefits that go with it. Stop being so paranoid about Greece and Greeks and try solving the 30% unemployment rate instead.

Greece even provides financial aid to Macedonia for infrastructure projects. This talk about invasions etc is just comical...

It has been Greece's aim to infiltrate and influence Macedonia from within. It is doing this through puppets such as Crvenkopoulos etc. however upon realising that they will not succeed, they may figure that the only way to silence Macedonia is not to only become Macedonians through inventing the 'Grik Mazedonians' so as to confuse people, but invade the Republic of Macedonia as a last resort.

Greece's national structure has been so incapable of adapting an ethnic Macedonian identity that it is in Greece's national interest to destroy Macedonia's nationhood. There is a simple solution which doesn't involve this, but I feel that greece is too gutless to do so. That is, to recognise that it is a multiethnic balkan country.

Given that you probably don't even know what ethnicity is, i'm wasting my time talking to you. My post was for the others.

[Risto the Great]

Coolski,

Stop saying nonsense. As I said before, what incentive does Greece have to invade MOD?

Demos, what the hell is MOD?
Repeat shit like that again and you are out of here.

[Sarafot]

Makedoniki Demokratiki maybe?

[Demos]

Demos, what the hell is MOD?
Repeat shit like that again and you are out of here.

It was a mistake. My intent was to right RoM (Republic of Macedonia).

[Demos]

It has been Greece's aim to infiltrate and influence Macedonia from within. It is doing this through puppets such as Crvenkopoulos etc. however upon realising that they will not succeed, they may figure that the only way to silence Macedonia is not to only become Macedonians through inventing the 'Grik Mazedonians' so as to confuse people, but invade the Republic of Macedonia as a last resort.

Greece's national structure has been so incapable of adapting an ethnic Macedonian identity that it is in Greece's national interest to destroy Macedonia's nationhood. There is a simple solution which doesn't involve this, but I feel that greece is too gutless to do so. That is, to recognise that it is a multiethnic balkan country.

Given that you probably don't even know what ethnicity is, i'm wasting my time talking to you. My post was for the others.

Coolski,

Do you have any factual evidence that Greece intends to invade Macedonia? Yes or No?

[Rogi]

As much (if not more) evidence as Greece has that the Republic of Macedonia aims to re-unite Macedonia.

[Demos]

As much (if not more) evidence as Greece has that the Republic of Macedonia aims to re-unite Macedonia.

Rogi,

Greeks aren't talking about reuniting lost lands of Pelagonia/Monastiri etc. They aren't printing irredentist maps or text in Greek school books. Greece is not involved in Macedonian's internal affairs with regard to the 400 Greeks supposedly living there.

I can't count the number of Macedonian forumers who are directly or indirectly advocating war or the call for insurrection and have even seen a forumer on maknews openly talk of "Death to all Greeks". What has Greece done? We have invested over 1 billion euros in Macedonia and are providing a living to almost 20,000 of your compatriots. We have even met you half way with the inclusion of the term "Macedonia" in your country's name only that you have to place a qualifier to differentiate it from our Macedonia, in the same way there is Mexico and the state of New Mexico in North America. During the early 1990s we had taken a hard line against any inclusion of the term Macedonia, but now we are prepared to meet you in the middle. Are you willing to meet us in the middle?

As I said before, Greece's military might is strictly for defensive purposes. We do not claim anything from anyone, but at the same time we aren't going to give up 1 cm2 of land to anyone either. This is both official and unofficial policy.

Other than that, you have no proof or indication that Greece would go to war with Macedonia. I mean, let's be realistic; Greece going to war with a country of 2 million with no air force to speak of, 30 something old Ukranian tanks, and 10,000 men is laughable. It would be kind of like Italy wanting to invade San Marino or the Vatican.

Let's at least try to keep the debate on a more serious level. There is too much speculation and conjecture which is baseless and relies more so on emotion than cold hard facts.

[Risto the Great]

Demos, aside from talking about it ... Greece has no justification whatsoever to create maps of a Greater Greece with more of Macedonia in it. On the other hand, my people still live in Greece, I have been there many times. The older ones still are uncomfortable communicating in Greek. They are more than happy to converse with friends in Bitola. The map of a historical Macedonia makes sense to people like me and reminds me of what should have been. Are these maps firing irredentism? No, they merely strengthen my resolve to remind idiots who attempt to undermine the historical character of the region. Some people cannot even accept the PROVEN fact that Greeks accepted the Macedonian identity 100 years ago but not today. So the maps provide a strong and necessary reminder to Greece about the rights of human beings.

[Demos]

Demos, aside from talking about it ... Greece has no justification whatsoever to create maps of a Greater Greece with more of Macedonia in it. On the other hand, my people still live in Greece, I have been there many times. The older ones still are uncomfortable communicating in Greek. They are more than happy to converse with friends in Bitola. The map of a historical Macedonia makes sense to people like me and reminds me of what should have been. Are these maps firing irredentism? No, they merely strengthen my resolve to remind idiots who attempt to undermine the historical character of the region. Some people cannot even accept the PROVEN fact that Greeks accepted the Macedonian identity 100 years ago but not today. So the maps provide a strong and necessary reminder to Greece about the rights of human beings.

Risto,

Personal question; do you advocate the changing of borders by whatever means possible up to and including the use of violence. Yes or no?

[Risto the Great]

No. Not at all, I do not believe it is practical. All I want is human rights for Macedonians wherever they are. Turkey has shown Greece what it needs to do right now, follow their progressive example.

[Soldier of Macedon]

They aren't printing irredentist maps or text in Greek school books.

There are absolutely no school books and/or maps printed in the Greek state at all which make reference to certain parts of history with regard to the 'Megali Idea' of Greece in the 20th century? Get serious.

I don't believe Macedonian school books advocate invasions against any of the neighbours, please correct me if I am wrong though and supply something to the contrary, as it seems you are under the assumption that you have been fed the right information from some fountain of wisdom.

Greece is not involved in Macedonian's internal affairs with regard to the 400 Greeks supposedly living there.

If the 400 supposed Greeks in the Republic of Macedonia were denied the right to self-identity as Greeks and to call their language as Greek, and instead were referred to as Albanogrtsi by all official organs in the country, do you think the Greek state should have the right to say something in defence of their kin across the border?

I can't count the number of Macedonian forumers who are directly or indirectly advocating war or the call for insurrection and have even seen a forumer on maknews openly talk of "Death to all Greeks".

Statements made on other forums are not the statements of this forum, so don't 'indirectly' try and string something together. And cut this 'victim' performance, there are an equal amount if not more modern Greeks calling for the destruction of the Macedonian state and identity collectively, and that feeling is way more prevalent than the emotional words of some Macedonians in response to all of the suffering our people have endured by the Greeks.

We have even met you half way with the inclusion of the term "Macedonia" in your country's name.........

That there my friend is a typical display of combined ignorance and arrogance drummed into the heads of all Greek citizens and their compatriots abroad by the official organs of the state and church, as if it is 'you' that gave up something to meet us half way. Are you implying that we did not have the right to call ourselves Macedonians to begin with, hence your generosity to meet us 'half way'? Saying that you met us 'half way' seems that you are implying that the Macedonian name belonged to you and you 'gave' half of it away, is this what you are implying? What exactly did you give up? Did you have to change anything in your state laws, by-laws, constitution, etc, did you have to change anything at all? Answer this, did the 'Greek Macedonian Committee' and Pavlos Melas meet the Macedonians 'half way'? What did they give up when they recognized the Macedonian people and language?

...........only that you have to place a qualifier to differentiate it from our Macedonia, in the same way there is Mexico and the state of New Mexico in North America.

That is right, except YOU should have the geographic identifier, the United Mexican States is known simply as Mexico because it is a country, the region/state/province in the USA rightfully cannot compare with the status of a country hence it is called NEW Mexico, another example is the Republic of Ireland known simply as Ireland because it is a country, the region/state/province in the UK rightfully cannot compare with the status of a country hence it is called NORTHERN Ireland. Using your own example, Greece should be changing the name of its province(s), not Macedonia changing the name of its nation.

Other than that, you have no proof or indication that Greece would go to war with Macedonia. I mean, let's be realistic; Greece going to war with a country of 2 million with no air force to speak of, 30 something old Ukranian tanks, and 10,000 men is laughable.

You have no indication that Macedonia would go to war with Greece. Let's be realistic, Macedonia will not initiate a war with a population in the EU and NATO and 5 X theirs, but in the same token, take away the fancy weaponry and it would be laughable to think Greece can lay a ground assault against the Macedonian state without having its soldiers buried in the fields of Bitola. We may be a small nation, but we are proud, and our soldiers and fighters have always been known for their bravery, as they are till today, just like you say that your state will not give a 1cm of land, my people wont give a 1mm of land.

[TerraNova]

There are absolutely no school books and/or maps printed in the Greek state at all which make reference to certain parts of history with regard to the 'Megali Idea' of Greece in the 20th century? Get serious.

Of course there is reference of "Megali Idea" as it was part of the modern Greek history,in the 19th and early 20th cent.
The map you probably imply is NOT map of "Megali Idea" ,...but Historical Reality,as it's borders are defined by the Treaties of Neiully and Sevres.
It's not about wishful thinking or fantastic "ethnic borders".

On the other hand when i was in Ohrid, in all shops i could find "UnitedMacedoniaMap" souvenirs!
I would find it extremely nationalistic and ridiculous if i ever see a Single One similar "Great/UnitedGreece" map ,in a shop in Greece!

I don't believe Macedonian school books advocate invasions against any of the neighbours, please correct me if I am wrong though and supply something to the contrary, as it seems you are under the assumption that you have been fed the right information from some fountain of wisdom.

These books present as "ethnic borders of Macedonia" the geographical area which is known as Macedonia in mid 19th cent (U may call it united Macedonia)
This is absolutely false and besides...what on earth are the "ethnic borders"?!?!?

, take away the fancy weaponry and it would be laughable to think Greece can lay a ground assault against the Macedonian state without having its soldiers buried in the fields of Bitola.

Ok get your spear and shield ,i ll get mine and let's meet at the borders