Shocking video of 3-4 year old child with a gun in Cyprus

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  • Big Bad Sven
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1528

    #16
    I said it before, and i will say it again, the "greeks" are the craziest and most fanatical people in the world, even more so then the fundamental muslims and zionist jews.

    This video just shows that these people are born and raised to hate their neighbours. The albanian pirates and vlach goat farmers in grease talk about good old christian and family values that they are "famous" for, but their actions are not of a good christian examples but crazy people, the way they act is not normal and i even feel embarrassed for them.

    PS. I think its safe to say that "communists" refers to macedonians, especially aegean macedonians....

    Comment

    • Valhalla
      Banned
      • Nov 2010
      • 55

      #17
      Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
      Onur is showing what kind of animals are raised by supposed heirs of the ancient Hellenes. It's all in line with this topic - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4666

      That little (innocent) animal wielding the gun is being indoctrinated with hate and venom because you people base your existence on a false claim of something called "hellenism" (invented by a German) which creates racism and xenophobia to walk in toe with your inferiority complex and identity crisis.
      It seems that the MTO is indoctinating you into bigotry, ignorance, hatred and a dose of facism. Just looking at the remarks being made by some posters here is really pathetic to say the least. I for the life of me cannot figure out how you can link news that happens everywhere in the world and paint a whole ppl along with same brush.

      Onur, you did an excellent job at pandering your audience. They fell right in bait line and sinker.

      Comment

      • fyrOM
        Banned
        • Feb 2010
        • 2180

        #18
        Valhalla do you know that ALL stereotypes stem from at least some element of truth. Your indignation would hold some weight if it was a rare occurrence but lets look at only the last year…thugs beating up migrants on a beach…thugs beating up refugees in a park an streets…thugs disturbing Muslim prays ect. Need I go on. Each incident had at least near 100 people involved including in one case middle aged greek women aswell. Does it look like an isolated incident or a trend.

        Macedonian saying in the futility of an action or logic.
        The implied part is a broken bucket.

        Koata ne ti drzi voda…your bucket doesn’t hold water.

        Comment

        • TrueMacedonian
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 3810

          #19
          Originally posted by Valhalla View Post
          It seems that the MTO is indoctinating you into bigotry, ignorance, hatred and a dose of facism. Just looking at the remarks being made by some posters here is really pathetic to say the least. I for the life of me cannot figure out how you can link news that happens everywhere in the world and paint a whole ppl along with same brush.

          Onur, you did an excellent job at pandering your audience. They fell right in bait line and sinker.
          Sorry but you people have a newspaper in your country that circulates names of the "enemies of hellenism" where full names, phone numbers and addresses are given so as to incite fear and hate in your society. Stohos is circulated throughout modern "greece" and all over the paranoid diaspora you are affiliated with. They even offer free trips to modern "greece" and cash rewards for the "elimination" of Macedonian activists.

          According to Panayote Dimitras, spokesman of the anti-racism campaign group the Greek Helsinki Monitor, racism in Greece is deep-rooted.

          "Greek national culture is one that believes there is a superiority of the Greek nation which is a continuous descendent of the ancient Greeks, and when you think like this about yourself it is very easy to think that the others are inferior," he says.



          This article says it all for me:

          Modern Hellenism and Traditions of Intolerance
          By Ivan Hristovski

          In the decades following its foundation in the 19th century, modern Greece developed extreme notions of ethno-nationalism that have attempted to ensure the multi-cultural masses adhere to the myth that the modern Greek citizen is indeed the descendent of the dead ancient of Hellenes. While many commentators are at present discussing Greece’s catastrophic economic situation; we are going to focus here on identity problems that stem from the early 19th century when fundamentalist national myths were invented for Greece by European philhellenes, especially the German enthusiasts.

          We shall begin by stating the obvious: extreme forms of nationalism are breeding grounds for racism. Hellenism, by definition of one of its German creators, Johan Gustav Droysen, represents an intolerant assimilatory culture that has not experienced any ruptures, from ancient to modern times (1). This Hellenism theory that Droysen concocted was taken by the chief historical revisionist of Greece in the mid-nineteenth century, Konstantinos Paparrigopoulos and was carved into separate eras which he dubbed as - Ancient Hellenism, Macedonian Hellenism, Byzantine/Medieval Hellenism, and Modern Hellenism(2). Droysen offered to the Greek national historians and politicians of the mid-late nineteenth century, to the Greek nation as a whole, not simply the imaginary vision of a ‘Hellenic’ Macedonia, but more importantly, an ideological justification for many other current politically motivated revisionist projects: the idealization of an imperial and expansionist political model; the invention of a ‘Hellenic’ Byzantium and Middle Ages in general; the adoption of Hegelian concepts of spiritual continuity, which was not necessarily linear but was based on the ability of the Hellenic spirit in its various forms to absorb ‘inferior’ elements(3). According to Panayote Dimitras, spokesman of the anti-racism campaign group the Greek Helsinki Monitor, racism in Greece is deep-rooted:"Greek national culture is one that believes there is a superiority of the Greek nation which is a continuous descendent of the ancient Greeks, and when you think like this about yourself it is very easy to think that the others are inferior," he says(4).

          However, racism in Greece as everywhere else is an ideology that lacks real coherence (5). Detailed analysis reveals a smoke screen of propaganda which enshrouds a past very different from the one presented by Greek ultra-nationalist pseudo-history. According to one scholar “Greeks were taught to reject everything familiar in their vernacular culture as ‘foreign’ to the Classical Hellenism invented by the eighteenth-century German scholars who had sired both the ‘autochthonous’ theory that Greek ethno genesis and, in the lineage of ‘Aryan’ linguistics, the so-called racial science of the Nazis”(6). Indeed the philhellenic laboratory experiment in Greece was certainly not about fostering, preserving and integrating the existing multi-cultural landscape. The formulae in this experiment were put into production before Greece existed. One Greek scholar points out “The force of this cultural pre-construction of Greece cannot be underestimated, considering especially that the sociopolitical conditions prevailing at the end of the War of Independence point to an irreducible social and cultural discontinuity, to a zero point in the operation of those significations that were conceivably to propel and uphold the images of a new national identity” (7). All of this is relevant today because of its affects on Macedonia and the Macedonians, especially the Macedonian minority in Greece, who are faced with prejudice on a grand scale. Moreover, it is pertinent to note that this xenophobic ideology continues without serious challenge from the European Union (8).

          Human rights groups say Greece has one of the worst records in the European Union for racism against ethnic minorities (9). Greece today does not recognize any ethnic minority within its boundaries. The reason is because this would upset the deeply entrenched philhellenic myths and Greece would have to admit that they are not a homogenous society with the oldest unruptured culture etc. Before the independence of Greece a number of languages were juxtaposed, including Greek, Albanian, Slavic, Vlach, Turkish and Italian, suggesting that the Greek nation was composed ‘by a sum of minorities’ and by no account a purely Greek phenomenon(10). A nineteenth century foreign visitor like Edmond About, writing in 1855, stated that “Athens, twenty five years ago, was only an Albanian village” and that “The Albanians formed, and still form, almost the whole of the population of Attica ; and within three leagues of the capital, villages are to be found where Greek is hardly understood. Athens has been rapidly peopled with men of all kinds and nations” (11). About also describes a Turkish village that surrounded the base of the acropolis which formed a quarter of the town as well the Albanian majority of that quarter (12). The fact that the Parthenon was used as a mosque during the Ottoman conquests(13) and before that was a church that went between Orthodox and Latin rites(14) is testament to the simple absurdity of Droysenian Hellenism.

          George Finlay, a 19th century philhellene who was in Greece during the war for independence, described an early President, George Koundoriotis and Botases the Vice President of the Greek government in 1824 as “Albanian ship owners from Hydra and Spetzas”(15). Finlay added that: “It is necessary to record the sad truth that two more ignorant and incapable persons were never entrusted with the direction of a nation's affairs. The Greeks are the most prejudiced of all Europeans when there is a question of the purity of the Hellenic race, and no people regards education with more favour; yet with all this nationality and pedantry they entrusted their public affairs, in a period of great difficulty, to two men who could not address them in the Greek language, and whose intellectual deficiencies prevented them from expressing their thoughts with clearness even in the corrupt Tosk dialect which they habitually used.”(16)

          Unadulterated facts, like these, about the multi-cultural origins of modern Greeks are often necessarily ignored in modern Greek nationalist narratives. In this regard, striking is the general lack of reflection upon the fact that the national dress of Greece is of Albanian origin (17), or the fact that Kolokotronis, the infamous klepht (bandit) leader, was a Major in an English General’s Albanian regiment (18) and performed an Albanian dance with other ‘Greek’ Revolutionaries for the Bavarian queen of Greece (19). Yet these ‘problems’ for the Greek nationalist narrative have still likely been lodged in the collective unconscious and this creates an insecurity that seems to make itself abhorrently evident via the often vicious manner in which Greek bigotry attempts to deny another nation’s right to an identity.
          Some have estimated that during the 15th century when the Ottomans conquered the whole of what became modern Greece in 1830, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (20). Their descendants played a leading role in the war for independence which helped win freedom from the Turks in 1821(21). The Vlachs were recorded in medieval times as having settled in what became modern Greece in very significant numbers (22). The Vlach intelligentsia paved the way for revolution in Greece during Ottoman times and, according to one Greek historian, “... contributed enormously to the development of a cultural network across national cultures and its members had acted as carriers of Greek language and culture due to their continuous migrations”(23). The Vlachs not only contributed to building up the new Hellenism which they imported from Western Europe, they also contributed to fighting the Turks as well being prominent Armatoles (police under Ottoman authority who betrayed the Sultan) and Klephts (bandit rebels). Yet their obvious Latin cultural origins are often ignored (24). However, during the early 19th century, the average person in what became Greece, according to the Historian William St. Claire, possessed feelings that were out of step with prominent philhellenes like Lord Byron:

          “Most Greeks did not share Byron’s views and would not have understood his allusions. They did not think of themselves as Greeks at all - and certainly not as Hellenes (a word incidentally which always makes me uncomfortable) but as Christians or Orthodox. They had little sense of nationality in the Western European sense of a nation state like England or France with distinct geographical boundaries, a single language, and uniform culture. They thought of themselves rather as Orthodox Christian inhabitants of a large multi-racial empire. They were not, for the most part, in the least interested in their ancient ancestors, and they knew very little about them. When travelers found the locals at Marathon or Salamis with stories about ancient times, they were delighted, for they thought they had found a genuine tradition from ancient times. But the locals were usually repeating stories they had heard from earlier travellers.”(25)

          When philhellenic infiltration took place after the formation of the modern Greek state, the multi-cultural inhabitants of Greece were to become ‘Hellenized’ (26). Moreover, this state began to spread the new doctrine outward into neighbouring lands. In particular, racist Hellenistic notions were directed towards all the Macedonians, Vlachs, Albanians and Turks in Macedonia and the Megali Idea, which reverberates even today, would attempt to forcefully impose itself on them and wreak terror on the people. Serious practical cultural (especially linguistic) gaps between the Macedonians and modern Greeks, in part explain the use of terror and as one scholar has noted, “...the Greeks, who could not compete on this terrain, compensated by stressing an imaginary ethnicity”. (27)
          The Greek myths in regard to Macedonia are significantly connected to the intolerant seeds contained in the origins of modern Hellenism and the Megali Idea (a 19th and 20th century expansionist plan for a Greater Greece). During the 19th century, Greek as a language was a mercantile, ecclesiastical lingua franca among the bi-lingual (sometimes tri-lingual) inhabitants of the Balkans, including Macedonia. One scholar estimated “The Greek - speaking population in the three provinces that made up Ottoman Macedonia was approximately 10% of the total population”. (28)
          Undaunted by this practical cultural divide Greeks attempted to Hellenize all and any in their path. Ironically a segment of the Vlachs formed the “backbone of Hellenism” in Macedonia during the early years of the 20th century. (29) Numerous foreign observers like the Englishman Brailsford, noted that “The average Greek or Hellenised Vlach in Macedonia, who professes to believe that the whole population is Greek, is doubtless to a great extent the victim of his daily impressions. He lives in a town which is for the most part Hellenised. He never goes into the country. He does not know the villages or the village folk. But even the more educated and moderate Greek ... will add a claim on behalf of Greece to more territory than her sons inhabit, "in recognition of the civilising mission of Hellenism.” I confess to some difficulty in deciding what Hellenism means in this connection. What is the specific attitude of mind which it denotes?”(30)

          The observations of foreigners not only demonstrate the claim that Hellenism has a dominant cultural continuity in Macedonia extending back “4000 years”, to be an absurd myth; they also make it clear that it is ridiculous to try to claim this for the lands upon which the modern Greek state was first formed. The contradictions between the available evidence and the myth are simply insurmountable. They do however; assist in illustrating something else about the modern Greeks and their attempts to deny the existence of Macedonians: “all that these contradictions really prove is that after nearly two centuries of independence, Greek nationalists remain insecure and self-doubting behind their boastful and touchy facades” (31). Extreme nationalists, on the surface always seem to find a way to ignore the realities of the more recent past in order to maintain the rather childish “logic according to which all the country’s modern claims must be evaluated by the yardstick of ancient history” (32). When Anastasia Karakasidou wrote her book Fields of wheat, hills of blood, about the forced Hellenization of Macedonia that was annexed by Greece, it set off a fire storm that reveals the difficulties below the surface of ultra-nationalist rhetoric and “exhibits both the nervousness of the Greek establishment and the persistence of stereotypes of Greeks as irrational, hysterical Balkan lunatics among supposedly sober commentators in the West. It also demonstrates the neuralgia that anthropology can induce in those who are committed to unitary myths of national origin, as it also does the sometimes unavoidable entailment of anthropology in its object study”.(33)

          This myth of Hellenism, which has significant racist traditions, is a denier of human rights to the Macedonian minority in Greece. Loring Danforth, an Anthropologist, describes an ultranationalist weekly newspaper that is distributed throughout Greece and its Diaspora, that “is testament to the evils of militarism, irredentism, xenophobia, and racism which are often fostered by extreme nationalism” and that “Calls for the reclamation of Asia Minor, Northern Macedonia (the Republic of Macedonia), and Northern Ipiros (Southern Albania) are standard themes of most issues, as are attacks on ethnic minorities in Greece such as the Jews, the ‘Mongols of Thrace’(the Turks), and the ‘Gypsy-Skopians’ (the Macedonians)” and this newspaper “even offered large sums of money and free trips to Greece as rewards for the ‘elimination’ of Macedonian activists who are regarded as particularly dangerous enemies of Hellenism”(34). This is but a more virulent example of what Macedonians in Greece are generally up against. How else is one to explain the fact that Greece refuses to recognise their existence!? Moreover, the Republic of Macedonia’s name, identity and culture are being challenged by this neighbourhood bully that is neurotically bent on maintaining an untenable national narrative. Goce Delchev, an early 20th century Macedonian liberation leader, once wrote “The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task”. He said this for the Macedonians under Ottoman rule, however Delchev’s assertion is also applicable to those Greeks who have been enslaved by the intolerant traditions within modern Hellenism and we need to remind them of their past, their diverse cultural origins and aid them to construct a history that does not require the denial of the existence of others. 
           

          Sources:


           
          1 European historiographical influences upon the young Konstantinos Paparrigopoulos, Ioannis Koubourlis -The Making of Modern Greece; Edited by Roderick Beaton and David Ricks (2009; 60).
          2 The Nation and its ruins: Antiquity, Archaeology, and National Imagination in Greece, Yannis Hamilakis (2007; 117-118)
          3 Ibid (2007; 117)
          4 Greek Albanians' woes fester, BBC News/Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4101469.stm (Thursday, 16 December 2004)
          5 Blood and oranges: European markets and immigrant labor in rural Greece, Christopher M. Lawrence (2007; 79)
          6 Anthropology; Theoretical Practice in Culture and Society, Michael Herzfeld (2001; 67)
          7 Dream Nation: Enlightenment, Colonization and the Institution of Modern Greece, Stathis Gourgouris (1996; 86). Gourgouris further states; “the recourse to the new image of Hellas (both as cultural construct and as social system) began immediately upon the brief rule of Governor Kapodistrias and became efficiently implemented with the takeover of the Bavarian monarchy and its explicit desire for centralization and Hellenization. In fact, the cultural image of a modern Greece was put into production with much greater urgency than was a political-economic infrastructure, despite the obvious importance of the latter in a newly constituted State.” (1996; 87)
          8 Greece is an Unworthy EU Member, Gunnar Nissen Danish newspaper Morgaenavisen Jyllands-Posten 2/26/1999. Nissen condemns Greece and the EU by stating "National oppression is taking place in many countries outside the EU. But Greece is an EU member and is thus a "part of the family". But do we intervene, we, the closest people? No, we shut up. Of ignorance or misunderstood solidarity with the Greek leaders, who as the Serbs, consider themselves "superbalkanian". Other people know more about the oppression than I, but I know a great many and every year more ignored and oppressed Slavic Macedonians in the Greek part of Macedonia. Can we justify our silence? I'm sure that Greece's unwillingness to accept the Republic of Macedonia is due to their black conscience over the oppression of Macedonians in Greece. Greece is (yet another) unworthy member of the EU." We need to here point out that while we admire the essence of Nissen‟s statement, that Nissen was probably unaware that Macedonians do reject the term “Slavic Macedonians” as offensive.
          9 Greek Albanians' woes fester, BBC News/Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4101469.stm (Thursday, 16 December 2004)
          10 Mediating the Nation: News, audiences and the politics of identity, Mirca Madianou (2005; 30). Madianou quotes Konstantinos Tsoukalas’ ‘by a sum of minorities’ from Dependency and reproduction: The social role of educational mechanisms in Greece (1830-1922), (1977; 50)
          11 Greece and the Greeks of the present day, Edmond About (1855; 32)
          12 Ibid (1855; 160)
          13 National Identity in Modern Greece, Peter Mackridge (2008; 305) Hellenisms: culture, identity, and ethnicity from antiquity to modernity edited by Katerina Zacharia.
          14 Athens: a cultural and literary history, Michael Llewellyn Smith (2004; 55). Smith describes the archaeological destruction of the Acropolis where the Bavarian overlords of Greece removed any Byzantine or Ottoman remnants in order to re-create a false perverted image of antiquity (2004; 56).
          15 History of the Greek Revolution Volume II, George Finlay (1861; 30)
          16 Ibid (1861; 30)
          17 That Greece Might Still Be Free; The Philhellenes in the War of Independence, William St. Clair (1972; 232). St. Claire further describes the functioning government as “being largely Albanians themselves” (1972; 232).
          18 History of the War of Independence in Greece Volume I, Thomas Keightley ( 1830; 260)
          19 Sketches of Modern Greece: Athens in 1837, Anon. (1838; 476) Blackwoods Edinburgh Magazine Vol. XLIII (January-June 1838)
          20 A Social Linguistic Study of Albanian Dialects Spoken in the Attica and Biotia Areas of Greece, P.Trudgill/G.Tzavaras (1975; 6)
          21 Migrations and Invasions in Greece and Adjacent Areas, NGL Hammond (1976; 63)
          22 Southeastern Europe in the Middle Ages, 500-1250, Florin Curta (2006; 281). Curta uses text from the Byzantine Keukamenos to describe the Vlachs and their migrations and settlements.
          23 Greece and the Balkans: Identities, Perceptions and Cultural Encounters since the Enlightenment, Dimitrios Tziovas (2003; 6). See also Victor Roudometof’s Nationalism, Globalization, and Orthodoxy; The social origins of ethnic conflict in the Balkans (2001; 57) where he illustrates the “Greek Orthodox Balkan intelligentsia was a stratum crossing ethnic frontiers”.
          24 Greeks and Romans, Tom Winifrith (1983; 92) Greece Old and New edited by Tom Winnifrith and Penelope Murray
          25 Byron and Greece, William St. Clair (1983;161-162 ) Greece Old and New edited by Tom Winnifrith and Penelope Murray
          26 Hellenism and the making of Modern Greece, Antonis Liakos (2008; 229) Hellenisms: culture, identity, and ethnicity from antiquity to modernity edited by Katerina Zacharia.
          27 Nations and Nationalism since 1780: Programme, Myth, Reality, Eric Hobsbawm ( 1992; 107). Hobsbawm describes the Macedonians after the Balkan Wars as one of a few “nationalities without states” (1992; 139).
          28 Collective Memory, National Identity, and Ethnic Conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian Question, Victor Roudometof (2002; 111)
          29 Culture, Civilization, And Demarcation at the Northwest Borders of Greece, Laurie Kain Hart (1999; 202) American Ethnologist 26, No. 1
          30 Macedonia; its races and their future, Henry Noel Brailsford (1906; 201)
          31 The Balkans: Of what is past, or Passing, or to Come, Brian Sullivan (1999; 18) The Emerging Strategic Environment; Challenges of the twenty first century Edited by Williamson Murray. Sullivan disputes the claims that the ancient Macedonians were ever Greek and the theory of their language being Greek, as many Greeks claim, as “the undisputed fact that Philip and Alexander admired Greek culture and that Greek was spoken at their court hardly made their subjects Greek, any more than the fact that the court of Catherine the Great and Alexander I spoke French made the Russian serfs of the late eighteenth or early nineteenth century part of French culture” (1999; 17).
          32 Anthropology; Theoretical Practice in Culture and Society, Michael Herzfeld (2001; 68)
          33 Ibid (2001; 68)
          34 The Macedonian Conflict; Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World, Loring Danforth (1995; 130-131)

          Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            #20
            Originally posted by Valhalla View Post
            Onur, you did an excellent job at pandering your audience. They fell right in bait line and sinker.
            No, it is the Greek politicians who did an "excellent" job by raising generations with indoctrination of hate as your national policy, so they can milk you more to continue their domination upon you and you ordinary people fell right in the bait line since they told you "pretty" lies which bring nothing more than destruction. Also, whoever opposed to this in Greece, branded as "communists" and they have been exterminated by very same people. Your history is full with the failures this like your Anatolia campaign in 1919 or your attempt to kill all the Turks in Cyprus to achieve union with Greece... all the events mentioned in EOKA memorial speech in my previous msg can be examples for this.

            All i do here is just pointing out this fact by giving various examples.

            Comment

            • Strive
              Banned
              • Jul 2010
              • 15

              #21
              Folks,

              What on earth has happened to the integrity of these forums? This thread is but one example of the rabid nationalism that has infected these boards with the resulting effect that no outsider, or third party, will take our cause seriously if they happened to start reading through some of the material posted.

              Every country has fascists, criminals and whackos, including Greece, including Macedonia and Turkey. Posting a youtube video of a wignut's grand child and then painting a whole nation with the same brush is propaganda. This only perpetuates hate.

              What amazes me is that some of you clearly appear to be very intelligent yet you have allowed your critical thinking skills to drain into the toilet by jumping on the bandwagon of such postings.

              Onur, your country has some attrocious human rights records. The Kurdish people have suffered at the hands of Turks for decades. Your people carried out some of the bloodiest acts in the region during the 19th and 20th centuries. If there is a parallel to the Macedonian plight in the region it is that of the Kurds. The only reason you are tolerated here is beacuse many see you as the enemy of an enemy, that is it.

              Shame on all of you who fell into this narrow minded and frankly racist line of thinking.

              Wake up people.

              Comment

              • TrueMacedonian
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3810

                #22
                Originally posted by Strive View Post
                Folks,

                What on earth has happened to the integrity of these forums? This thread is but one example of the rabid nationalism that has infected these boards with the resulting effect that no outsider, or third party, will take our cause seriously if they happened to start reading through some of the material posted.

                Every country has fascists, criminals and whackos, including Greece, including Macedonia and Turkey. Posting a youtube video of a wignut's grand child and then painting a whole nation with the same brush is propaganda. This only perpetuates hate.

                What amazes me is that some of you clearly appear to be very intelligent yet you have allowed your critical thinking skills to drain into the toilet by jumping on the bandwagon of such postings.

                Onur, your country has some attrocious human rights records. The Kurdish people have suffered at the hands of Turks for decades. Your people carried out some of the bloodiest acts in the region during the 19th and 20th centuries. If there is a parallel to the Macedonian plight in the region it is that of the Kurds. The only reason you are tolerated here is beacuse many see you as the enemy of an enemy, that is it.

                Shame on all of you who fell into this narrow minded and frankly racist line of thinking.

                Wake up people.
                You need a wake up call. One more time:

                According to Panayote Dimitras, spokesman of the anti-racism campaign group the Greek Helsinki Monitor, racism in Greece is deep-rooted.

                "Greek national culture is one that believes there is a superiority of the Greek nation which is a continuous descendent of the ancient Greeks, and when you think like this about yourself it is very easy to think that the others are inferior," he says.


                YouTube - Macedonia protests against Skopje 1992!! HERE IS MACEDONIA!

                You are deluded if you think that this topic is racist. Stop twisting things around when the facts, yes THE FACTS say differently. You want to see some real racism from modern "greece",,,,here it is.

                YouTube - Tsarknias-Atheatos Kosmos-ALTER TV GR -17/09/02
                Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                Comment

                • TrueMacedonian
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3810

                  #23
                  Just in case more than the 2 modern "greeks" try and twist things in this topic here's what modern "greek" society does to someone who talks about Macedonians and the forced hellenization of Occupied Macedonia:

                  YouTube - Greek nationalists threatening Greeks for saying the truth

                  This part of the globalissues.org web site looks into the issue of racism. In some places around the world, racial hatred is increasing. Many modern conflicts also have some roots in ethnicity.


                  Greece has one of the worst records in the European Union for racism against ethnic minorities
                  Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                  Comment

                  • Strive
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 15

                    #24
                    TM, what happened to you? You were once a bright prospect amongst the the weeds who are mired with generalizations and closed minded arguments.

                    Of course there are racists in Greece. But do not delude yourself. If we were to apply the same criteria to Turkey and Macedonia we would find racists too.

                    What are your thoughts on Turkey's treatment of the Kurds? What about how Albanians are seen, in general, by our people in forums such as this? Gypsies are treated like garbage in all of the nations in the neighborhood. Do you remember the "Macedonoid" commercial broadcast in Macedonia? Was there not a tinge of superiority conveyed in that commercial which was broadcast on national television. If we dig hard we can all paint ourselves with the same brush. You need to concentrate less on these sophist approaches and concentrate more on the historical and political elements involved in this dispute.

                    What you do not realize is that when a third party comes in here and reads the drivel in this thread, drivel about "Greek animals", and racists, they end up taking the rest of the fine information on this website with a grain of salt. It diminishes from the whole.

                    The fact that you cannot see this makes me think that I have over estimated your ability to discern the critical topics that need to be addressed.

                    Do you think Turkey has a good human rights record, TM? Why are the consistently ranked lower than all of the neighboring European countries in terms of civil liberties and human freedoms by nearly all objective international organizations. The only reason you are pow-wowing with Onur is because he hates Greeks as much as you do.

                    Where is your integrity and objectivity?

                    . Wake up.

                    Comment

                    • TrueMacedonian
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3810

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Strive View Post
                      TM, what happened to you? You were once a bright prospect amongst the the weeds who are mired with generalizations and closed minded arguments.

                      Of course there are racists in Greece. But do not delude yourself. If we were to apply the same criteria to Turkey and Macedonia we would find racists too.

                      What are your thoughts on Turkey's treatment of the Kurds? What about how Albanians are seen, in general, by our people in forums such as this? Gypsies are treated like garbage in all of the nations in the neighborhood. Do you remember the "Macedonoid" commercial broadcast in Macedonia? Was there not a tinge of superiority conveyed in that commercial which was broadcast on national television. If we dig hard we can all paint ourselves with the same brush. You need to concentrate less on these sophist approaches and concentrate more on the historical and political elements involved in this dispute.

                      What you do not realize is that when a third party comes in here and reads the drivel in this thread, drivel about "Greek animals", and racists, they end up taking the rest of the fine information on this website with a grain of salt. It diminishes from the whole.

                      The fact that you cannot see this makes me think that I have over estimated your ability to discern the critical topics that need to be addressed.

                      Do you think Turkey has a good human rights record, TM? Why are the consistently ranked lower than all of the neighboring European countries in terms of civil liberties and human freedoms by nearly all objective international organizations. The only reason you are pow-wowing with Onur is because he hates Greeks as much as you do.

                      Where is your integrity and objectivity?

                      . Wake up.
                      First off let's get one thing straight of who you are - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...3251#post63251

                      and what you have said:

                      But that was not the point, Bratot. The claim put forth is that if a suffix or prefix is added to the name Macedonia then this will compromise the integrity of the ethnic Macedonian identity. This claim is irrelevant to how long a struggle has taken place for an independent state. My point was that it is claimed that Macedonians have lived in political entities not named Macedonia for centuries while maintaining their culture and identity. How does adding a suffix or prefix to the name Macedonia compromise the integrity of the Macedonian identity? It is your own position that your people have struggled for gaining their own state for centuries. This indicates that a Macedonian identity was alive and well regardless of what the name of the state they resided in was. Do you see my point?
                      Your comments are soothing for those "North Macedonian" perpetuators. Your baseless claims on the Turkish HR records are wrong.



                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Just in case more than the 2 modern "greeks" try and twist things in this topic here's what modern "greek" society does to someone who talks about Macedonians and the forced hellenization of Occupied Macedonia:


                      This part of the globalissues.org web site looks into the issue of racism. In some places around the world, racial hatred is increasing. Many modern conflicts also have some roots in ethnicity.


                      Greece has one of the worst records in the European Union for racism against ethnic minorities

                      Strove, you aren't a contributor on this forum. You aren't anyone of relevence. You are the same modern "greek" nitwit that gets banned here weekly. The first post I made here stings your eyes but it isn't based on jibberish. Unfortunately for you it is based on facts which I have added to every post on here:

                      Onur is showing what kind of animals are raised by supposed heirs of the ancient Hellenes. It's all in line with this topic - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4666

                      That little (innocent) animal wielding the gun is being indoctrinated with hate and venom because you people base your existence on a false claim of something called "hellenism" (invented by a German) which creates racism and xenophobia to walk in toe with your inferiority complex and identity crisis.


                      YouTube - Nationalism Threatens Democracy - Greece
                      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                      Comment

                      • Strive
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 15

                        #26
                        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                        First off let's get one thing straight of who you are - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...3251#post63251

                        and what you have said:



                        Your comments are soothing for those "North Macedonian" perpetuators. Your baseless claims on the Turkish HR records are wrong.
                        It is obvious that dissent is not tolerated here. Anyone that does not tow the company line is branded as a traitor and marginalized. This is not how true academics operate, TM. You brand me as a Greek because I do not have the same political views as you do. How can anyone take this forum seriously if this line of thought is the consensus?

                        For instance...do you all realize how ridiculous your anti Koloski/UMD crusade looks to outside observers?

                        You have denigrated yourself into an extreme nationalist whose hate blinds them to the point where they make ridiculous assertions such as "your baseless claims on Turkish HR records are wrong".

                        Have you heard of the Kurds dear? Do you know of their plight? What are the main differences between the Macedonian cause and the Kurdish cause?

                        There are many NGO's, neutral observers, that rank Turkey well below any European neighbor in terms of human freedoms and civil liberties. Yes this even includes Greece and Bulgaria. The fact that you try and minimize Turkish HR records is a pathetic attempt to appease Onur because he hates Greeks as much as you do.

                        And yes TM, there are many Macedonian fascists that hate Greeks, Albanians, Serbs and Bulgarians.

                        Societies in the Balkans are racist, in general. You must get away from these stupid arguments and go back to what you were doing when this forum was setup.

                        My whole point here was to show how stupid it is to post a youtube video of a toddler and use that to perpetuate hate against a whole nation.
                        Last edited by Strive; 11-18-2010, 12:49 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Valhalla
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 55

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          No, it is the Greek politicians who did an "excellent" job by raising generations with indoctrination of hate as your national policy, so they can milk you more to continue their domination upon you and you ordinary people fell right in the bait line since they told you "pretty" lies which bring nothing more than destruction.

                          All i do here is just pointing out this fact by giving various examples.
                          Our Politicians ?! Lets take a lesson from yours instead...
                          Burning down your own mosques in Cyprus and saying Greeks did it is a more dignified approach ?

                          Your out of line Onur, your in no position to point out any examples to anyone.

                          Comment

                          • Big Bad Sven
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 1528

                            #28
                            Strive, lets be honest here buddy, when have you seen a grk person or a group of grks stand up for their Macedonian neighbours (im talking about Macedonians in grease) when bullied or intimidated by the golden dawn? They seem to turn a blind eye or endorse it.
                            Have you ever seen or heard of a grk in grease say “hang on, what our government is doing to Macedonia is wrong, lets protest”? Would it be fair to say that it would be extremely hard to find many people in grease who would have no problem with just simply calling the Macedonians as Macedonians and their country as Macedonia?????
                            What about the Macedonian priests in Aegean Macedonia that get harassed by other grk priests and grk Christians? When will we see another grk priest defend him?

                            Or what about smaller things that don’t usually involve politics. When Macedonia ever wins something or does something great you will NEVER see or hear a grk praise the Macedonian. You rude and arrogant donkeys don’t even give a single vote to Macedonia in a measly little singing competition like Eurovision. That alone just shows how petty and anti-macedonian you all are.

                            Macedonians on the other hand have tried to put politics behind them and be “nice” to griks. Like I said in the past we had Macedonians happy for grease when they won the euro-cup and we saw images of Macedonians in Skopje and Ohrid dancing and celebrating with the grk flag. Tose Proeski also did something like this as well, a gesture of good will to a people who sadly will never show any respect back.

                            In Macedonia we don’t hassle grk tourists and we don’t humiliate them by forcing them to say that they are not grk, however in your little paradise we have grks humiliating every Macedonian idiot who corsses the border to go for a holiday or even our sportsmen are submitted to this kind of sick humiliation. Again it is unfortunate that our sportsmen submit to this humiliation but that’s another topic of discussion…..

                            Its hard to take your claims seriously when you come here and try to act like some sort of innocent victim when clearly the issue here is not the Macedonians, who just simply want the basic right of self determination, but the grks, who are here to simply erase everything to do with Macedonian history and culture.

                            Because there is no sign of any decent or good grk people who actually want to help Macedonians and be friends for the past 20 or so years, my opinion is that sadly wasting our efforts of “good will” to the grks is a waste of time, as you people are pure fanatics that cant see that you are being played for fools by your nationalist politicians and evil church.

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3810

                              #29
                              Strove said;
                              It is obvious that dissent is not tolerated here. Anyone that does not tow the company line is branded as a traitor and marginalized. This is not how true academics operate, TM.
                              We aren't here to publish your thesis. You're giving your opinion which the majority of people in here do not agree with or like. You aren't a traitor because I doubt you are even a Macedonian.

                              You have denigrated yourself into an extreme nationalist whose hate blinds them to the point where they make ridiculous assertions such as "your baseless claims on Turkish HR records are wrong".
                              I am far from being an extreme nationalist. You obviously are trying to paint me with that brush but it ain't happening.
                              This is what you claimed without any source:
                              Do you think Turkey has a good human rights record, TM? Why are the consistently ranked lower than all of the neighboring European countries in terms of civil liberties and human freedoms by nearly all objective international organizations.
                              And I retorted with this -
                              This part of the globalissues.org web site looks into the issue of racism. In some places around the world, racial hatred is increasing. Many modern conflicts also have some roots in ethnicity.


                              Greece has one of the worst records in the European Union for racism against ethnic minorities

                              Have you heard of the Kurds dear? Do you know of their plight? What are the main differences between the Macedonian cause and the Kurdish cause?
                              What about the Kurds? This topic is about the modern "greeks" and the way they conduct themselves and instill nationalist ideologies in children as young as 3 or 4. Why would you even mention a people that have nothing to do with the topic on hand? I could mention the Armenians but that is all irrelevant to this topic.

                              There are many NGO's, neutral observers, that rank Turkey well below any European neighbor in terms of human freedoms and civil liberties. Yes this even includes Greece and Bulgaria. The fact that you try and minimize Turkish HR records is a pathetic attempt to appease Onur because he hates Greeks as much as you do.
                              Hardly. I am using facts and life experiences to base my arguements on what kind of animals are raised in modern "greece".

                              And yes TM, there are many Macedonian fascists that hate Greeks, Albanians, Serbs and Bulgarians.
                              Yeah,,, and your point???? Where have I said that there aren't any? It's obvious what your modus operandi is. To mention irrelevant facts in a topic discussing your people.

                              Societies in the Balkans are racist, in general. You must get away from these stupid arguments and go back to what you were doing when this forum was setup.
                              No actually I won't stop engaging this topic. I will not only further display what kind of monsters live in modern "greece" I also intend to expose people like you who make believe they are righteous Macedonians but are nothing more than low-life imposter hellenes squirming when they see something that hurts their eyes.

                              My whole point here was to show how stupid it is to post a youtube video of a toddler and use that to perpetuate hate against a whole nation.
                              Why stop at that video? Why not view all the relevant topics and sources available in here - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4666


                              The .5 or .6% of good human beings that are your co-nationals are decent people with a heart in there chest. The rest of you racist animals stay tuned. I intend to post more on your society.
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                              Comment

                              • Valhalla
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 55

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
                                Strive, lets be honest here buddy, when have you seen a grk person or a group of grks stand up for their Macedonian neighbours (im talking about Macedonians in grease) when bullied or intimidated by the golden dawn? They seem to turn a blind eye or endorse it.
                                Have you ever seen or heard of a grk in grease say “hang on, what our government is doing to Macedonia is wrong, lets protest”? Would it be fair to say that it would be extremely hard to find many people in grease who would have no problem with just simply calling the Macedonians as Macedonians and their country as Macedonia?????
                                What about the Macedonian priests in Aegean Macedonia that get harassed by other grk priests and grk Christians? When will we see another grk priest defend him?

                                Or what about smaller things that don’t usually involve politics. When Macedonia ever wins something or does something great you will NEVER see or hear a grk praise the Macedonian. You rude and arrogant donkeys don’t even give a single vote to Macedonia in a measly little singing competition like Eurovision. That alone just shows how petty and anti-macedonian you all are.

                                Macedonians on the other hand have tried to put politics behind them and be “nice” to griks. Like I said in the past we had Macedonians happy for grease when they won the euro-cup and we saw images of Macedonians in Skopje and Ohrid dancing and celebrating with the grk flag. Tose Proeski also did something like this as well, a gesture of good will to a people who sadly will never show any respect back.

                                In Macedonia we don’t hassle grk tourists and we don’t humiliate them by forcing them to say that they are not grk, however in your little paradise we have grks humiliating every Macedonian idiot who corsses the border to go for a holiday or even our sportsmen are submitted to this kind of sick humiliation. Again it is unfortunate that our sportsmen submit to this humiliation but that’s another topic of discussion…..

                                Its hard to take your claims seriously when you come here and try to act like some sort of innocent victim when clearly the issue here is not the Macedonians, who just simply want the basic right of self determination, but the grks, who are here to simply erase everything to do with Macedonian history and culture.

                                Because there is no sign of any decent or good grk people who actually want to help Macedonians and be friends for the past 20 or so years, my opinion is that sadly wasting our efforts of “good will” to the grks is a waste of time, as you people are pure fanatics that cant see that you are being played for fools by your nationalist politicians and evil church.
                                Greeks in Florina and other parts of Macedonia cross the borders to ROM everyday to shop products. They are in good relations with their neighbors and dont pay attention to the politics. At the end of the day thats what it is...Politics. Your just another diasporite that doesnt have a clue.

                                Comment

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