Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-13-2009, 08:43 AM   #1
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,297
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Rome saved Greece from the Macedonians!

Plutarch, Lives, Flaminius, 1st-2nd century


What Titus Quintius Flamininus, whom we select as a parallel to Philopœmen, was in personal appearance, those who are curious may see by the brazen statue of him, which stands in Rome near that of the great Apollo, brought from Carthage, opposite to the Circus Maximus, with a Greek inscription upon it.

It is true that the kingdom of Macedon furnished supplies enough to Philip for actual battle with the Romans; but to maintain a long and lingering war, he must call in aid from Greece; must thence procure his supplies; there find his means of retreat; Greece, in a word, would be his resource for all the requisites of his army. Unless, therefore, the Greeks could be withdrawn from siding with Philip, this war with him must not expect its decision from a single battle.

Titus was, therefore, very desirous, and entreated his soldiers that they would pass through it as if it were their own, or as if a place trusted into their hands; and, indeed, they quickly perceived, by the event, what benefit they derived from this moderate and orderly conduct. For they no sooner set foot in Thessaly, but the cities opened their gates, and the Greeks, within Thermopylæ, were all eagerness and excitement to ally themselves with them. The Achæans abandoned their alliance with Philip, and voted to join with the Romans in actual arms against him; and the Opuntians, though the Ætolians, who were zealous allies of the Romans, were willing and desirous to undertake the protection of the city, would not listen to proposals from them; but, sending for Titus, entrusted and committed themselves to his charge.

And all who came near Titus, could not choose but say as much of him, at their first view. For they who had been told by the Macedonians of an invader, at the head of a barbarian army, carrying everywhere slavery and destruction on his sword’s point; when in lieu of such an one, they met a man, in the flower of his age, of a gentle and humane aspect, a Greek in his voice and language, and a lover of honor, were wonderfully pleased and attracted; and when they left him, they filled the cities, wherever they went, with favorable feelings for him, and with the belief that in him they might find the protector and asserter of their liberties. And when afterwards, on Philip’s professing a desire for peace, Titus made a tender to him of peace and friendship, upon the condition that the Greeks be left to their own laws, and that he should withdraw his garrisons, which he refused to comply with, now after these proposals, the universal belief even of the favorers and partisans of Philip, was, that the Romans came not to fight against the Greeks, but for the Greeks, against the Macedonians. Accordingly, all the rest of Greece came to peaceable terms with him.

…..Philip, making overtures of submission of himself and his kingdom to the discretion of Titus and the Romans, puts an end to those jealousies, as Titus by accepting them, did to the war. For he reinstated Philip in his kingdom of Macedon, but made it a condition that he should quit Greece…..

It was now the time of the celebration of the Isthmian games; and the seats around the racecourse were crowded with an unusual multitude of spectators; Greece, after long wars, having regained not only peace, but hopes of liberty, and being able once more to keep holiday in safety. A trumpet sounded to command silence; and the crier, stepping forth amidst the spectators, made proclamation, that the Roman senate, and Titus Quintius, the proconsular general, having vanquished king Philip and the Macedonians, restored the Corinthians, Locrians, Phocians, Eubœans, Achæans of Phthiotis, Magnetians, Thessalians, and Perrhæbians to their own lands, laws, and liberties; remitting all impositions upon them, and withdrawing all garrisons from their cities. At first, many heard not at all, and others not distinctly, what was said; but there was a confused and uncertain stir among the assembled people, some wondering, some asking, some calling out to have it proclaimed again. When, therefore, fresh silence was made, the crier raising his voice, succeeded in making himself generally heard; and recited the decree again. A shout of joy followed it, so loud that it was heard as far as the sea. The whole assembly rose and stood up; there was no further thought of the entertainment; all were only eager to leap up and salute and address their thanks to the deliverer and champion of Greece.

----------------------------------------------------------------
end of excerpts
----------------------------------------------------------------


The 'champion' of Greece? Greek in voice and language? Greek inscriptions of Latin heroes in Rome? Greeks should look to Italy for their saviours and heroes, these are the people that gave the Greeks their freedom back after the Macedonians ravaged Greece and the Greeks for years.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2009, 05:16 PM   #2
Sarafot
Member
 
Sarafot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Celje/Виница
Posts: 616
Sarafot is on a distinguished road
Default

I have heard this from my dedo,belived or not,he sad to me,Romans and Greeks were brothers,greeks ask them for help against Macedonians,where the fuck did he hear that?
__________________
Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
- Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902
Sarafot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 07:31 PM   #3
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,297
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The Oxford Illustrated Prehistory of Europe, edited by Barry Cunliffe, Oxford University Press, 1994.
Quote:
Page 357 – By this time the Greek cities of southern Italy were in a state of economic and social decline, attached by hostile natives and racked by political intrigue. Inevitably Rome was drawn in and when, in 264, the Greek cities of Sicily found themselves in conflict with their Carthaginian neighbours, Rome intervened on the side of the Greeks instigating the first of the three Punic Wars………..Rome was being drawn into political events of the French and Spanish littoral by the old Greek cities now economically unstable and fearful fo Carthaginian expansion northward along the coast. As Rome extended its protective influence, so Carthage advanced until inevitably, in 218 BC, the two giants clashed and the Second Punic War erupted………….The subjugation of Carthage ran parallel with Rome’s early involvement in Greece and the Balkans. It began in 229 when war was declared on the Queen of Illyria……..
Looks like Rome saved the Greeks from both Macedonians and Carthiginians - and therefore found a reason for expansion. At one point Hannibal and the Macedonian king Phillip were discussing joint-action against Rome and Greece.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...light=hannibal

Quote:
The Romans paid no attention to Philip, the Macedonian, when he began war against them. They were so busy about other things that they did not even think of him, for Italy was still scourged by Hannibal, the Carthaginian general, and they were at war in Africa, Carthage, and Spain, and were restoring order in Sicily. Philip himself, moved by a desire of enlarging his dominions, although he had suffered nothing whatever at the hands of the Romans, sent an embassy, the chief of which was Xenophanes, to Hannibal in Italy, proposing to aid him in Italy if he would promise to assist him in the subjugation of Greece. Hannibal agreed to this arrangement and took an oath to support it, and sent an embassy in return to receive the oath of Philip. A Roman trireme intercepted the ambassadors of both on their return and carried them to Rome. Thereupon Philip in his anger attacked Corcyra, which was in alliance with Rome.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:11 AM   #4
The LION will ROAR
Senior Member
 
The LION will ROAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia, Sydney
Posts: 3,231
The LION will ROAR is on a distinguished road
Default

Livy
Roman Historian

"Such were the activities of the Romans and of Philip on land during that summer. At the beginning of the same summer, the fleet, commanded by the legate Lucius Apustius, left Corcyra, rounded Cape Malea, and joined King Attalus of Scyllaeum, in the region of Hermoine. Hitherto the resentment of the Athenian community against Philip had been kept in check by fear; but now, with the hope of assistance ready at hand, they gave free rein to their anger. There is never any lack at Athenian tongues ready and willing to stir up the passion of the common people; this kind of oratory is nurtured by the applause of the mob in all free communities; but this is especially true of Athens, where eloquence has the greatest influence. The popular assembly immediately carried a proposal that all statues of Philip and all portraits of him, with their inscriptions, and also those of his ancestors of either sex, should be removed and destroyed; that all feast-days, rites, and priesthoods instituted in honour of Philip or his ancestors should be deprived of sanctity; that even the sites of any memorials or inscriptions in his honour should be held accursed, and that it should not be lawful thereafter to decide to set up or dedicate on those sites any of those things which might lawfully be set up or dedicated on an undefiled site; that whenever the priests of the people offered prayer on behalf of the Athenian people and their allies, their armies and navies, they should on every occasion HEAP CURSES and execrations on Philip, his family and his realm, his forces on land and sea, AND THE WHOLE RACE AND NAME OF THE MACEDONIANS."

There was appended to this decree a provision that if anyone afterwards should bring forward a proposal tending to bring on Philip disgrace or dishonour then the Athenian people would pass it in its entirety; whereas if anyone should by word or deed seek to counter his disgrace, or to enhance his honour, the killing of such a person would be lawful homicide. A final clause provided that all the decrees formerly passed against the Pisistratidae should be observed in regard to Philip. This was the Athenians' war against Philip, a war of words, written or spoken, for that is where their only strength lies." [Livy's book XXXI.44]
The most pressing point, the one that screams for recognition, is the call for the Athenian people to (a) "heap curses and execrations on Philip, his family and his realm, his forces on land and sea, and the whole race and name of the Macedonians, and (b) whereas if anyone should by word or deed seek to counter his disgrace, or to enhance his honour, the killing of such a person would be lawful homicide.

In conclusion one must remember the following:
(a) The ancient Greeks regarded the ancient Macedonians as foreigners.
(b) They regarded the ancient Macedonians as people of different race.
(c) They regarded the ancient Macedonians as barbarians, as people who enslaved the Greeks.
(d) This episode describes the situation in Athens around 200 B.C.
(e) It should constantly be born in mind the intensity of the hate expressed towards the conqueror from the north - the Macedonians. If anyone in as much as utter a one positive word for Philip, then this person should be killed, and the killing of that person would be taken as lawful homicide. These feelings were mutual by the way.
(f) The suggestion by some authors (marginal lot, anyway) that these two dissimilar people "blended together" in some aspects of their culture becomes much harder to accept, and therefore, is rejected based such credible evidence.

It is apparent that ancient Greeks did not consider the ancient Macedonians as Greeks. Modern Greeks' assertion that ancient Macedonians were Greeks is constantly undermined by the view of the ancients. The fact remains that ancient Macedonians were just that - Macedonians.
__________________
The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!
The LION will ROAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:14 AM   #5
The LION will ROAR
Senior Member
 
The LION will ROAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia, Sydney
Posts: 3,231
The LION will ROAR is on a distinguished road
Default

Appian - Roman Historian

Quote:
Quote:

"The Roman people and Senate, and Flamininus, their general, having vanquished the Macedonians and Philip, their king, order that Greece shall be free from foreign garrisons, not subject to tribute, and shall live under her own customs and laws."
Appian., On Macedonian Affairs, 1.4.
__________________
The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!
The LION will ROAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:16 AM   #6
The LION will ROAR
Senior Member
 
The LION will ROAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Australia, Sydney
Posts: 3,231
The LION will ROAR is on a distinguished road
Default



Aemilius Paullus
IN ALL MY YEARS OF WAR, I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE, SEEN ANYTHING MORE TERRIFYING, THAN THOSE MACEDONIANS ADVANCING ON THE BATTLEFIELD“
__________________
The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!
The LION will ROAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 10:29 PM   #7
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,297
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Here is a collection of quotes from Livy regarding Rome, the saviour of Greece from the Macedonians.
Quote:
….Philip……had ravaged the Athenian territory and driven the inhabitants into the city, and it was their request for help which decided the Romans to recommence the war. (31,1)
Quote:
……in conjunction with the Rhodians vigorously opposed Philip, they might have won the glorious title of Liberators of Greece. Instead of this, they allowed him to cross the Hellespont……….and surrendered the glory of bringing it to a close to the Romans. (31,15)
Quote:
……….Greece should be sufficiently strong, even in the absence of the Romans, to protect her liberty and prevent the peace from being broken…….he was totally mistaken if he supposed that he would leave either peace with Rome or liberty for Greece on a sure basis unless Philip were either put to death or expelled from his kingdom…..(33,12)
Quote:
…………..they would not allow him to join forces with Philip and so hinder the Romans in their work of liberating Greece. (33,20)
Quote:
All the Greek communities in Europe and Asia were to be free and independent..(33,30)
Quote:
securing the freedom of Greece…..the whole of Greece must be declared free if…….they desired to convince the Greeks that they had crossed the seas with the sole purpose of winning their freedom….(33,31)
Quote:
…..all the cities in Greece and Asia recover their liberty ……(33,33)
Quote:
…the deliverance of Greece from Philip ….(33,44)
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 10:41 PM   #8
makedonche
Senior Member
 
makedonche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 3,247
makedonche is on a distinguished road
Default

SoM

Pretty conclusive.........not much room for interpretation of the "Hellenic Myth" amongst those quotes!
__________________
On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"
makedonche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 11:08 PM   #9
George S.
Senior Member
 
George S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,116
George S. is on a distinguished road
Default

I have to agree that rome saved the greeks from the macedonians.I would like to state that the romans drew a distinction from the two people's that they were totally different & so they the romans created the two provinces one of greece & one of Macedonian.Clearly identifying the two.
Nowdays the greeks are only too happy to say that macedonians & greeks are the same people what utter BS they are not the same.

Last edited by George S.; 01-22-2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: edit
George S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 08:07 AM   #10
Voltron
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
Voltron is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Here is a collection of quotes from Livy regarding Rome, the saviour of Greece from the Macedonians.
Can you post me a link where it will take me to the original text and not the english translation. I have seen to many times people using quotes and discovering them to be adulterated and not in its full context.
Voltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump