U.S. Politics, Elections & Culture issues

[Phoenix]

You left out when I said his purported stances, I don't believe he has enough brain cells to even comprehend half of the things that come out of his mouth. He is a buffoon who gets distracted by shinny objects, and yes he is exactly the leader Americans deserve. Americans will learn why its not cool to be a loud mouthed ignoramus, which many Americans have prided themselves on being. Maybe after this debacle they can learn to put a little more faith in the nerd who doesn't talk so well but actually knows things.

Nicely reconciled Gocka, the acknowledgement that you've just made needs to be fully understood by the majority of Americans...for the first time in their chequered history, they have one of their own running the show...and looking in the mirror, is not what they like at the moment.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You left out when I said his purported stances.....

That's because you followed that line by stating that there are many of them which you don't disagree with. You now seem to be giving more emphasis to the adjective. Fine. Does that mean you think they only appear like policies or that they are false policies? If so, how can you agree, disagree or not disagree with them? And as you've failed to answer my previous question, let me rephrase it, would you rather somebody you like as a person but who has "purported" policies you don't support?

[Gocka]

Okay I'll bite, but let me start off by saying that It think you are over thinking this a bit.

What I mean by purported is that I don't believe he knows or understands the difference between a policy or a pony. He doesn't have policies or stances as an individual, he repeats the last thing he heard that sounded good to him. So in that regard what ever stances he purports to hold are shallow and he doesn't really hold them.

What I meant by, I don't disagree with a MANY of them, but not all, is that some of the things he says are not wrong, some of the stances are not wrong. But again refer to the above. How can he implement things he doesn't understand nor really care about? Since when do any of us support that level of ignorance?

Now let me elaborate on why I don't like him as a person and partly answer your question about "liking" the person. I view the presidency as much more than a vehicle to pass laws through. The congress really takes on the burden of policy and laws. The presidency in my opinion, is more so about setting a good example, inspiring, uniting, to a degree facilitating the functioning of the government. The reason I dislike him so much is because his persona is the exact opposite of what I believe we want and expect our fellow citizens to be like. Add to that he genuinely doesn't seem like he knows anything other than a handful of things he found useful throughout his life, and how can you justify that he is fit for office? Just because he repeats like a parrot some talking points fed to him by his propagandists?

Now if you would indulge me as I have you and answer my questions

Do you think his behavior and demeanor is irrelevant given the position he holds?

Do you think he has genuinely informed views that are based on some sort of principles?

Finally this wouldn't have something to do with me purportedly saying you may have been guilty of being full of shit, would it

But seriously, I don't know what the coverage of Trump is like in Australia, but if you listen to him for more than a few minutes, its pretty obvious he's not very intelligent, has either shallow or no understanding at all on most issues, speaks like he hasn't gotten past the 3rd grade, has daddy approval complex, and just generally acts like a douche.

That's because you followed that line by stating that there are many of them which you don't disagree with. You now seem to be giving more emphasis to the adjective. Fine. Does that mean you think they only appear like policies or that they are false policies? If so, how can you agree, disagree or not disagree with them? And as you've failed to answer my previous question, let me rephrase it, would you rather somebody you like as a person but who has "purported" policies you don't support?

[Gocka]

I think its hard for people who have not been to the USA to understand the level of ignorance that exists. They finally got someone who in my opinion sounds and acts like a good chunk of Americans. They will learn why being able to make a lot of money doesn't mean you are good for anything else, why talking loudly doesn't mean you are right, or that you know what your talking about, that complex issues can't be solved through simplistic and bombastic rhetoric, that saying you are the best doesn't make you the best.

To me he epitomizes a large part of America who has always been told and believed that they were the best at everything. They finally realized that they are not the best, but with a big caveat, instead of just accepting that saying your the best doesn't make it true, now they just want to lash out and find someone to blame for knocking them off their game.

Nicely reconciled Gocka, the acknowledgement that you've just made needs to be fully understood by the majority of Americans...for the first time in their chequered history, they have one of their own running the show...and looking in the mirror, is not what they like at the moment.

[Bill77]

To me he epitomizes a large part of America who has always been told and believed that they were the best at everything.

if only Macedonians had the same pride, mabe Macedonia wouldn't be in such a disarray. I see this as nothing more than patriotism which isn't such a bad thing and f..k what others think.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Okay I'll bite, but let me start off by saying that It think you are over thinking this a bit.

I believe in the importance of clarity over ambiguity, of specificity over sensationalism. Some people think that's normal. Call me crazy.

Now if you would indulge me as I have you.......

You still haven't answered my original question, even after I added your "purported" qualifier. Let me know if you need more time.

Do you think his behavior and demeanor is irrelevant given the position he holds?

No.

Do you think he has genuinely informed views that are based on some sort of principles?

Sometimes.

Finally this wouldn't have something to do with me purportedly saying you may have been guilty of being full of shit, would it

Now who's overthinking it.

[Gocka]

Patriotism is good, ignorance is bad.

Let me flip it this way. If the USA was dirt poor like Macedonia, what value do you think their belief in their superiority would have?

I do have to admit that Americans are actually pretty patriotic, superiority complex aside, they really do care about the country and a large portion I think would make the ultimate sacrifice if it were needed.

if only Macedonians had the same pride, mabe Macedonia wouldn't be in such a disarray. I see this as nothing more than patriotism which isn't such a bad thing and f..k what others think.

[Gocka]

Are you a lawyer be trade by any chance? Something about the way you express yourself gives me that impression.

I didn't find what I said ambiguous, maybe general but not ambiguous.

I believe in the importance of clarity over ambiguity, of specificity over sensationalism. Some people think that's normal. Call me crazy.

I thought I answered it in long form but I will make it short.

I would rather have someone who I don't like, if they at least stood for things that I believe in, or in the case of a politician, policies I believe in.

Does that answer it?

You still haven't answered my original question, even after I added your "purported" qualifier. Let me know if you need more time.

Lol I don't know, somehow over 5 years, I only now landed on your radar, call it a coincidence then. For there record I don't think your full of shit.

Now who's overthinking it.

[Vangelovski]

They will learn why being able to make a lot of money doesn't mean you are good for anything else, why talking loudly doesn't mean you are right, or that you know what your talking about, that complex issues can't be solved through simplistic and bombastic rhetoric, that saying you are the best doesn't make you the best.

I can't think (off the top of my head) a single national leader that isn't like that. I can't think of a single national leader that doesn't use simplistic rhetoric, or that really understands the issues they face or that doesn't think that they (or their party or their nation) isn't the best. Actually, maybe Ivanov (but that's beside the point).

Just because some may pander to your (or my) particular ideological views and make sense for you, doesn't mean that they actually make sense or that they are able to solve anything or even that what you think may need solving is even actually a problem. Personally, I think there is very little difference between the vast majority of politicians and few are any better or worse than Trump.

Personally, my biggest issue with Trump is that he's not a conservative. He'll probably lean that way in most instances, but you can't trust a fart in the wind. I could go anywhere.

[Gocka]

Don't you think its dangerous for such an impressionable and ignorant person to have so much power?

I find it very hard to trust someone who doesn't really stand for anything. I think his entire worldview is based on the idea that right and wrong is totally dependent on what works for him in the moment. Everything is negotiable as long as it leads to some sort of benefit for him. Doesn't this clash with your view that right and wrong is objective?

I don't think he "leans" anywhere, or at least where he leans changes on a daily basis. Before he ran for president the few political views he expressed over the years were staunchly liberal.

Personally, my biggest issue with Trump is that he's not a conservative. He'll probably lean that way in most instances, but you can't trust a fart in the wind. I could go anywhere.

[Bill77]

Let me flip it this way. If the USA was dirt poor like Macedonia, what value do you think their belief in their superiority would have? .

The answer to this is..... Well let me put it this way. Which country thinks they are the USA and almost just as poor as Macedonia?


Greece. We might all laugh at them, but they have no Albanian issues (yet) or any other minority issues (as we keep hearing from them everyone is Greek) and I would be surprised if they have any mosque issues.

[Vangelovski]

Don't you think its dangerous for such an impressionable and ignorant person to have so much power?

I find it very hard to trust someone who doesn't really stand for anything. I think his entire worldview is based on the idea that right and wrong is totally dependent on what works for him in the moment. Everything is negotiable as long as it leads to some sort of benefit for him.

That's every politician in the world.

Doesn't this clash with your view that right and wrong is objective?

Yes. That's why I said you can't trust a fart in the wind. Because it blows around depending on the direction of the wind.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I would rather have someone who I don't like, if they at least stood for things that I believe in, or in the case of a politician, policies I believe in.

OK, so good policies outweigh character flaws. When one reads the above and compares it to the below....

I can't stand the sight of him nor his illiterate voice and it has absolutely nothing to do with his purported political stances, many of which I don't disagree with.

...they could be excused for assuming you'd rather have Trump were it not for his fickleness on certain policies, unless of course you think the policies of the alternative candidate were better.

[Gocka]

I felt the need to put that in there because I think i lean a little liberal and I wanted it to be known that my dislike and distrust for him goes a lot deeper that him pretending to be a conservative, that's all.

...they could be excused for assuming you'd rather have Trump were it not for his fickleness on certain policies, unless of course you think the policies of the alternative candidate were better.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I felt the need to put that in there because I think i lean a little liberal and I wanted it to be known that my dislike and distrust for him goes a lot deeper that him pretending to be a conservative, that's all.

You mentioned earlier that there were many of his (purported) policies that you don't disagree with. Which policies were you referring to?

By the way, I am going to move the discussion relating to Trump to another thread.