Russia, Ukraine and the West

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    YuriB, I feel like you believe everything you have ever read on MSM. You were excruciatingly wrong with covid matters and now I see you believe everything you're reading about Ukraine.

    I suspect Russia will now lock down its new territories and the MSM will begin changing their narrative very quickly.

    Next you will tell me everyone still loves Jacinda.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Dejan
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 589

      Originally posted by YuriB View Post
      Seems to me Putin has been caught in a lose-lose situation. Inaction seems to be allowing Ukraine to take back slowly their territory (which he is considering Russia now). Since the Russian military has shown to be just a farce, the only viable response seems to be use of low-yield nuclear weapons as you suggest (assuming that they actually work and this is a big if with what have seen so far). Nevertheless, such a hit will surely result in the US/NATO/the rest of the world, simply destroying all Russian military in Ukraine and in the Black Sea (no need to use nukes against them).
      You scratch the surface of what you hear on the news, and it ends up actually being the opposite of what is being said. I'm not reading it like you put it at the moment
      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

      Comment

      • Karposh
        Member
        • Aug 2015
        • 863

        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
        That certainly seems to be the MSM narrative of the conflict, the constant news loop suggesting that the Russians are losing and that Putin is running out of options and therefore getting more desperate.
        In fact, Putin is so desperate that he blew up his own gas pipelines...if you believe the MSM whores.

        Comment

        • YuriB
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2019
          • 54

          Some of you refer to mainstream media with an impossible to understand disdain. One (obviously?) needs a variety of inputs to inform an understanding and, in my opinion, trusted journalism is one of these avenues. I am really wondering how do you get your news and most importantly, what do you consider trustworthy and why. Possibly a topic for a different thread but without it, our perceptions of the world are too hard to be reconciled.

          On Putin/Russia matters, do we at least agree that they have significantly underperformed based on their reputation before the war? I was expecting Ukraine and Kiyv to fall within a few days, let alone survive and push the Russians back out of more than half the territory they had won initially
          Regards,
          A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

          Comment

          • kompir
            Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 537

            Originally posted by YuriB View Post
            Some of you refer to mainstream media with an impossible to understand disdain. One (obviously?) needs a variety of inputs to inform an understanding and, in my opinion, trusted journalism is one of these avenues. I am really wondering how do you get your news and most importantly, what do you consider trustworthy and why. Possibly a topic for a different thread but without it, our perceptions of the world are too hard to be reconciled.

            On Putin/Russia matters, do we at least agree that they have significantly underperformed based on their reputation before the war? I was expecting Ukraine and Kiyv to fall within a few days, let alone survive and push the Russians back out of more than half the territory they had won initially
            There is no trusted media, the real news comes from people on the ground using other mediums besides the MSM.
            Доста бе Вегето една, во секоја манџа се мешаш

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              Threat for Russian Military on Ukrainian Front Lines:


              REDACTED - Putin just issued a DIRE warning to Zelensky about WW3:
              Just after Russia formally annexed the four regions of the Donbas region, the country launched a massive offensive to protect it. Ukrainian President Zelensk...
              Last edited by Carlin; 10-06-2022, 09:37 PM.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                Some of you refer to mainstream media with an impossible to understand disdain. One (obviously?) needs a variety of inputs to inform an understanding and, in my opinion, trusted journalism is one of these avenues. I am really wondering how do you get your news and most importantly, what do you consider trustworthy and why. Possibly a topic for a different thread but without it, our perceptions of the world are too hard to be reconciled.

                YuriB.
                Is it really impossible to understand the disdain for MSM? Or are you really that naive?

                You must have missed the bit where, here in Australia, the government offered a 12 month tax on advertising exemption to MSM in order to propagate the covid narrative. So they all happily lied in exchange for tax free money.

                But you know all that. You're just having a laugh. I like a laugh too.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                  On Putin/Russia matters, do we at least agree that they have significantly underperformed based on their reputation before the war? I was expecting Ukraine and Kiyv to fall within a few days, let alone survive and push the Russians back out of more than half the territory they had won initially
                  Unlike USA bombing civilians and infrastructure in Serbia, Russia knows how inflammatory it would be to nuke Kiev. They have achieved everything they intended to achieve in my opinion. But time will tell. Let's hope they don't reinforce the message.

                  Given your penchant for MSM, you might have been led to believe the Minsk agreements were violated by Russia. Feel free to share what you would have done about the ethnic Russians being murdered in Ukraine over the last 8 years.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • kompir
                    Member
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 537

                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post

                    YuriB.
                    Is it really impossible to understand the disdain for MSM? Or are you really that naive?

                    You must have missed the bit where, here in Australia, the government offered a 12 month tax on advertising exemption to MSM in order to propagate the covid narrative. So they all happily lied in exchange for tax free money.

                    But you know all that. You're just having a laugh. I like a laugh too.
                    One example from a pool of thousands.

                    This is one of my favourites.

                    Доста бе Вегето една, во секоја манџа се мешаш

                    Comment

                    • Phoenix
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 4671

                      Originally posted by kompir View Post
                      There is no trusted media, the real news comes from people on the ground using other mediums besides the MSM.
                      Very true…small media/news organizations and independent journalists, political commentators and pundits of various persuasions have filled the void created by the MSM giants when they sold their arses to the highest political bidder, the MSM traded investigative journalism for the blind political activism of their new masters.

                      Even the citizen ‘journalist’ has become one of the most trustworthy sources of news, the bloke reporting at a protest site with nothing more than an iPhone and a social media account has provide far more accurate news than the MSM conglomerates covering the same story…2 years of Covid lunacy has provided abundant examples of this very point.

                      Even today and from the outset of the Ukrainian conflict the MSM narrative has been the same mash-up of Western psychological operations against Russia…remember the mythical exploits of the ‘Ghost of Kiev’, the ‘heroic’ exploits of Ukrainian farmers towing away Russian tanks, the stories that Russia had used up all their missile stocks, that Putin was on his death bed and bullshit story after bullshit story…where was the MSM to investigate the veracity of anyone of those claims…?

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        Vangelovski here, once participant now random forum follower.

                        This thread is getting interesting, but also a bit ridiculous tbh.

                        Lets start with the ridiculous. A lot of you are creating an impossible standard for discovering basic facts. I've lost count of how many times people have said everything in the media is a lie. Sure, there is a lot of misinformation, disinformation, ideologically driven narratives and plain old propaganda. But the basic facts are there. For example, there is a war going on in Ukraine. If everything were a lie, then we couldn't even trust that a war was actually happening.

                        I think the basic facts that we can accept are that there is a war in Ukraine, Russia invaded and now the Ukrainians are forcing them back. I'll leave all the motivations to speculation.

                        Now for the interesting. I also see a lot of pro-Russian sentiment here. But I disagree with it.

                        I support Ukraine in its war against Russia on principle. The Ukrainians are a sovereign people. They have an independent state. Russia has no business invading, which it clearly did in 2014 and then extended that invasion earlier this year. I don't care about their reasons.

                        I also support the West arming and training the Ukrainian military. In fact, I would support Western armed forces going into direct combat with the Russian army if it was necessary to remove them from Ukraine. The reason for this is both a) as above, the Ukrainians are a sovereign people and b) Russia is an authoritarian state still heavily Marxist. I have no time for any of that. I'd like to see them put in their place.

                        But I'm fairly confident that with Western arms and training Ukraine will liberate its territory. The Russians never really had the capability of fighting against an adversary the size of Ukraine. Few, if any, modern militaries do.
                        Last edited by Vangelovski; 10-07-2022, 02:33 AM.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          You meant to write USA, not Ukraine?

                          Personally, I enjoy the hypocrisy of USA accusing Russia of doing something bad. Particularly because, well, Macedonia.

                          I like Americans but they have lost their nation to it's own secretive organisations and NGOs. Covid has proven how corrupt msm is. Knowing there is a war on is hardly news. Inflatable tanks in dramatised videos is less so.
                          Last edited by Risto the Great; 10-07-2022, 04:19 AM.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • YuriB
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2019
                            • 54

                            I completely second Vangelovski (I could not have said this any better). I've also been driven to this chat because of the interesting, as you put it, direction.

                            I was rather puzzled, to be honest, on the sublime support on this Russia and Putin. I feel that Macedonians have had rather negative experiences with a similar playbook taking place in Tetovo just 20 years ago (perhaps still on?). If Russia gets to do this then why not Albania? Isn't there at least some self-preservation empathy, if not the principles mentioned?

                            I'll admit to being a bit provocative on calling the Russian army a farce but I was merely fishing for a confirmation of the aforementioned pro-Russia sentiment. It's rather easy to selective read news to confirm a preferred outcome; the big question is why would one prefer such an outcome..?
                            Regards,
                            A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1595

                              This is an interesting discussion. I only wish this level of effort and passion were put into actual Macedonian threads.
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                You meant to write USA, not Ukraine?
                                No, I meant Ukraine.

                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                Personally, I enjoy the hypocrisy of USA accusing Russia of doing something bad. Particularly because, well, Macedonia.
                                I don't really care what the US has accused Russia of (or vice versa). I am accusing Russia of being wrong in relation to its invasion of Ukraine, specifically because this is the thread about Russia and the Ukraine. But I do remember that Ukraine supplied Macedonia with the bulk of its weapons in 2001. I don't remember Russia (or the US for that matter) providing anything.

                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                Knowing there is a war on is hardly news. Inflatable tanks in dramatised videos is less so.
                                Really? If I believed the comments on this thread, I can't trust there is a war on. Everything is fake news and all footage and photos are just deep fakes. I haven't seen any inflatable tanks in dramatised videos. But if there are, maybe the war isn't really happening after all?
                                Last edited by Vangelovski; 10-07-2022, 06:01 AM.
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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